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Dinner as a junior doctor

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Original post by Xotol
I don't understand this. You avoided medicine because you wanted a good work/life balance, and so chose a career that is more overworked, understaffed and underpaid than medicine?


Overworked and understaffed? Got any evidence of the that? If anything, band 5 rotational physio roles in the NHS were oversubscribed as recent as 2007/08.

Pretty sure a physio with their own business would disagree with you. Pretty sure a physio working part time in the leisure industry would disagree. I haven't met a single physio who is working night shifts 6 days a week and has to be available at any time or who has to travel to opposite ends of the country as part of their training. Never met a physio who had to skip lunch or eat it in 10 minutes between patients.

Pay was never an issue for me so I'm not clear on why you chose to highlight that. Deciding between med and physio was never a question of salary. My primary motivation is patient care and if I wanted money I wouldn't be in the health care industry at all. Far easier ways of making 21K than 5 years at med school. Far easier ways of making 30+K than 5 years at med schools plus foundation year training.

xotol
This is nonsense. Doctors have families to look after And? So do nurses, so do carers. So do bin men.

xotol
tens of thousands of pounds worth of debts to pay off 1. Student loans are income contingent so it's not as bad as you insinuate. 2. They knew the debt they were getting into when they signed up for a medical degree and no one forced them to do it. 3. Other graduates are in thousands of debt too. What is your point?

xytol
bills to pay, mortgages, among of multitude of other things which requires money. So does everyone else and most people earn less than a doctor who is out of foundation years.


xytol
Why is that in every other profession it is acceptable to fight for fair conditions aside from those in healthcare? It's not right. No one has said that.

xytol
Doctors go through years of medical training and tonnes of other **** (conferences, research, papers, teaching etc) to pass hoops in order to get to a good position. There is no point of it if the reward at the end is not fair., 'Fair', who told you life was 'fair'? First - again - they signed up for that hard work. Second, nothing is guaranteed to anyone. Third, they signed up for a particular job not for a particular salary.

xytol
The fact is the patient is not first, you and your family come first. No one would go through this to become a volunteer in the end. 21K starting salary is not a 'volunteer'. And if a doctor thinks his or her mortgage repayment, student loan and 'multitude of other things' take precedence then they shouldn't have been allowed a place a med school in the first place.

xytol
And the idea is that not everyone in healthcare is striking. Even in a full JD strike, consultants are fully capable of covering emergencies. But pretty all elective work would grind to a halt, which is the point. That isn't what I have a bone to pick with. I've said why in my other posts.

Cyril
But, for your point, here's an extreme hypothetical to consider: imagine that the government somehow withdrew all funding for wages to be paid to healthcare staff. Are healthcare workers not allowed to strike/quit because they have a 'duty' of upholding care? No. people would die, but everyone would quit regardless.
Extreme hypothetical. You said it yourself. The issue at hand is enough of a minefield without wasting time on that.


Posted from TSR Mobile
I don't think showing M&S sushi is an good example of showing someone without money.

If it was like lidl crisps and water then maybe I'd feel sorry for you.
Original post by somethingbeautiful
You can't be for real?

So she'd have been happy to suffer a slow and painful death on her own so that people could moan about their jobs? Who are you to say what her wishes would have been anyway - I doubt you were her power of attorney.

Posted from TSR Mobile


Wouldn't have been much different to the eventual slow and painful death she died at the hands of an overstretched NHS. I mean if anything itd probably have been a lot quicker.

My grandma believed strongly in workers rights, her so worked for a Trade Union for Christs sake...

The whole point is people shouldn't moan about their jobs, they should fight for positive change.
Original post by ATLHustler
Have you ever considered why Medicine is such a competitive course to get into? Have you thought about how long doctors train? Not just in uni, but it's life-long learning - did you know that?

Come down off your high horse - "Do you see us striking" RUBBISH, doctors wouldn't just strike to leave their patients. They're striking FOR their patients ultimately. Trust me, they wouldn't be doctors if they didn't care for the patients, and if they wanted in just for money.
Doctors didn't know about the new contracts when they applied.


The first paragraph is just silly imo, pay is not, and in my opinion should not be, proportional to how long you train. Otherwise architects and academics would earn ridiculous amounts. Sadly for those of us within those disciplines we generally earn peanuts, and not just in the first 5-10 years of our careers either.

Many manual and vocational jobs are very important and should be paid as such. Don't pretend doctors went into this for the money, they went into it because they enjoy the profession, or at least thought they might.
Reply 64
Avatar for Xotol
Xotol
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Original post by somethingbeautiful
Overworked and understaffed? Got any evidence of the that? If anything, band 5 rotational physio roles in the NHS were oversubscribed as recent as 2007/08.


I am literally quoting you. You made this exact assertion less than a day ago and have continually contradicted yourself since:

Original post by somethingbeautiful
We're more overworked, understaffed and underpaid than junior doctors and we have lives in our hands too - do you see us striking and leaving our patients etc? No.


You have since clarified that you are a physio, so you are, in effect, arguing with yourself. Some strong comprehension skills on display, making the physios proud

Pay was never an issue for me so I'm not clear on why you chose to highlight that. Deciding between med and physio was never a question of salary.


Somehow I suspect that decision wasn't entirely yours to make...

1. Student loans are income contingent so it's not as bad as you insinuate. 2. They knew the debt they were getting into when they signed up for a medical degree and no one forced them to do it. 3. Other graduates are in thousands of debt too. What is your point?


Income contingency does not wipe out the pure volume of debt we are under, nor the amount of time we spent studying in med school. http://careers.bmj.com/careers/advice/UK_doctors_unlikely_to_be_able_to_repay_student_loans,_study_finds

As a med student in London who is forced to live away from home and also to borrow the maximum maintenance loans because my family simply don't have enough money, I am going to end up with nearly £100,000 worth of debt after my 6 years are up. It is simply not comparable to other professions.

And I didn't sign up for medicine knowing that this contract would be imposed on us. Funnily enough, it will be us medical students who are hit the hardest come graduation if things don't change - we dont have pay protection. No wonder med school applications are falling year on year, and here we are in a climate where there is a considerable shortage of doctors. Clearly something is wrong here, and the worst thing possible we could do is stand idly by watching it happen

I was going to respond to the rest of your drivel, but just realised that i really don't have time nor patience.

HOWEVER, you did make me laugh when my quoted name somehow went from Xotol -> xotol -> xytol -> Cyril in your post. God forbid you ever encounter my real name
(edited 8 years ago)
Yes

Im not wanting to do it because of the money any more. Any one searching for money would be a moron to try and get it from being a doctor in this country.
Original post by Awesome Genius
Yes

Im not wanting to do it because of the money any more. Any one searching for money would be a moron to try and get it from being a doctor in this country.


You're really growing on me, exponentially it would appear :h:
Original post by Ethereal World
You're really growing on me, exponentially it would appear :h:


I was going to say that. AG is living up to their name :yep:
Original post by Awesome Genius
i dont vote


Is there a specific reason?
Original post by acupofgreentea
Is there a specific reason?


nah i just cbb and i don't care, they all have the same policy in my eyes - re-election
Original post by iEthan
I was going to say that. AG is living up to their name :yep:


Just recently he seems more genuine on here and although the jokey stuff is funny I like the sincerity too. :adore: the member of the year 2k15.
Original post by Ethereal World
You're really growing on me, exponentially it would appear :h:


I agree. :yep: It's because he's being genuine a lot more often now, I think.
Original post by Ethereal World
Just recently he seems more genuine on here and although the jokey stuff is funny I like the sincerity too. :adore: the member of the year 2k15.


All hail AG, a surprise to us all. I never expected to say this either :lol:
Did you ever consider any other career or industry though? Will you be doing a masters with the introduction of the government funding for masters degrees?
Original post by iEthan
All hail AG, a surprise to us all. I never expected to say this either :lol:


To be honest, I always thought he was an alright guy - he just wasn't genuine often enough for it to come through fully.

Also, I feel kind of rude that we're openly discussing him like he won't most likely see this. :lol:

Original post by Awesome Genius
nah i just cbb and i don't care, they all have the same policy in my eyes - re-election


Ah. :redface: I think we're gonna have to disagree on that front.
Original post by acupofgreentea
To be honest, I always thought he was an alright guy - he just wasn't genuine often enough for it to come through fully.

Also, I feel kind of rude that we're openly discussing him like he won't most likely see this. :lol:



Ah. :redface: I think we're gonna have to disagree on that front.


I hope he sees it! I think he's a cool dude right now! Really cool. :yep:
Thought you moved in to ib or something better paying out was it bs as usual?
Original post by RiskVsReward
Thought you moved in to ib or something better paying out was it bs as usual?


It's quite funny, he works IB like hours with less pay.
Original post by TheAmazingETF
It's quite funny, he works IB like hours with less pay.


Ib is way harder to get into. Not even comparable. Also soul crushing work. Way longer too.
Original post by RiskVsReward
Ib is way harder to get into. Not even comparable. Also soul crushing work. Way longer too.


Wrong, bolded.

IB is very open to most universities and degree types (nowadays).

IBD/LevFin i agree the work is soul crushing most of the time, but not always. There's days where you have **** all to do.
(edited 8 years ago)

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