The Student Room Group

scientific reasons for believing in god?

Scroll to see replies

Reply 20
Original post by HAnwar
Well science will never be able to provide proof of God's existence, however we (Muslims) have our own proof- the Qur'an which was revealed to Prophet Muhammad (SAW).


but how do you know the qu'ran is true? don't you need proof for that too
Reply 21
Original post by john2054
Science and God is an oxymoron i'm afraid! And that's the scientific way of putting it.


queefy
Original post by champ_mc99
Not exactly proof but the causation argument? Everyone agrees that the universe had a beginning. Non religious people believe this was due to the big bang. The cause of the big bang can be thought of as the action of an omnipotent eternal being i.e. God


One should be quite careful when saying "everyone thinks" because not everyone does.
True it is established by most scientists that the universe had a beginning in time 14 odd billion years ago.

The causation argument States simply that everyone that exists has a cause for such existence, there was a time before that made that happen. Eg I was born because of my parents they were born because of theirs etc etc

Now the problem of that comes from the fact that nothing can logically go back forever right? This is the infinite regress. "What made the universe?" "God did" "What made God then?" By logic it would be the God of God
Theists don't like this at all, so they say God is a special exception and is a "uncaused cause" mostly justified by the idea that God is "outside" of time or the beginning of time itself from whence there was no time before God.

Here's the crutch, most scientists say that there was no time before the Big Bang, anything that came before was outside of time. The Big Bang is the moment time and the universe as we know it began. Therefore it can be concluded that the first cause for the universe is itself, there was no time for a creator or anything before the bang, the line ends there.

It's a philosophical argument and not a scientific one, there are instances of "uncaused" instances occurring such as nuclear decay.
Hope that helped.
Reply 23
Original post by louissmith501
One should be quite careful when saying "everyone thinks" because not everyone does.
True it is established by most scientists that the universe had a beginning in time 14 odd billion years ago.

The causation argument States simply that everyone that exists has a cause for such existence, there was a time before that made that happen. Eg I was born because of my parents they were born because of theirs etc etc

Now the problem of that comes from the fact that nothing can logically go back forever right? This is the infinite regress. "What made the universe?" "God did" "What made God then?" By logic it would be the God of God
Theists don't like this at all, so they say God is a special exception and is a "uncaused cause" mostly justified by the idea that God is "outside" of time or the beginning of time itself from whence there was no time before God.

Here's the crutch, most scientists say that there was no time before the Big Bang, anything that came before was outside of time. The Big Bang is the moment time and the universe as we know it began. Therefore it can be concluded that the first cause for the universe is itself, there was no time for a creator or anything before the bang, the line ends there.

It's a philosophical argument and not a scientific one, there are instances of "uncaused" instances occurring such as nuclear decay.
Hope that helped.


is y'all mother****er a scientist ***** :frown::h:
nature's complexity. Look up "irreducible complexity"
Original post by mangala
queefy


what does that mean?
Reply 26
Original post by SoDoneWithSchool
nature's complexity. Look up "irreducible complexity"


i did. they're implying that natural selection is a "random process" by saying that things an eye for example comes across by chance. they're being misleading about what evolution is in order to prove their point. an eye wouldn't come across in a single mutation, it happens gradually through natural selection
Original post by SoDoneWithSchool
nature's complexity. Look up "irreducible complexity"


"We therefore find that Professor Behe's claim for irreducible complexity has been refuted in peer-reviewed research papers and has been rejected by the scientific community at large." Ruling, Judge John E. Jones III, Kitzmiller v. Dover Area School District

It's pseudoscience in the same vein as this link:
http://youtu.be/DaDeiBRifm8
Original post by mangala
is y'all mother****er a scientist ***** :frown::h:


what about the reason it gives in the Bible? ergo when Noah stepped off the ark for the first time since the flood, God displayed his rainbow and said, here this is my proof, of my existence. For often, after the storm, you will see that mighty sight in the sky. And no please don't try to rationalise it with scientific theories, because a rainbow in photo shop can never compare, even slightly, to the majesty of the real thing. This is but a single example of something that god can do, and man can't. People who don't believe in god, and try to rationalise it, with scientific theories, often don't realize that Greek philosophy was the origins of modern western science, and the majority of greeks did believe in God. Hell they believed in a whole panotican of them.

Even Einstein, another father of modern western physics, questioned the almighty question, in his later years.
Original post by louissmith501
"We therefore find that Professor Behe's claim for irreducible complexity has been refuted in peer-reviewed research papers and has been rejected by the scientific community at large." Ruling, Judge John E. Jones III, Kitzmiller v. Dover Area School District

It's pseudoscience in the same vein as this link:
http://youtu.be/DaDeiBRifm8


please provide the link for this judgement, or some of the papers referred to here , thanks louis?
Original post by john2054
what about the reason it gives in the Bible? ergo when Noah stepped off the ark for the first time since the flood, God displayed his rainbow and said, here this is my proof, of my existence. For often, after the storm, you will see that mighty sight in the sky. And no please don't try to rationalise it with scientific theories, because a rainbow in photo shop can never compare, even slightly, to the majesty of the real thing. This is but a single example of something that god can do, and man can't. People who don't believe in god, and try to rationalise it, with scientific theories, often don't realize that Greek philosophy was the origins of modern western science, and the majority of greeks did believe in God. Hell they believed in a whole panotican of them.

Even Einstein, another father of modern western physics, questioned the almighty question, in his later years.


It's best to describe Einstein as a pantheist, he believed the universe itself was God or an expression of it. He called the Christian Muslim God etc as "the product of human weakness".
The Greeks did lay the foundation for a lot of things, they also laid the foundation for a rejection of atom theory that lasted for 2000 odd years and the geocentric model, there were not perfect.
Original post by john2054
please provide the link for this judgement, or some of the papers referred to here , thanks louis?


Provided in quote.

"True in this latest creationist variant, advocates of so-called intelligent design ... use more slick, pseudoscientific language. They talk about things like 'irreducible complexity'" Shulman, Seth (2006). Undermining science: suppression and distortion in the Bush Administration. Berkeley: University of California Press. p. 13. ISBN 0-520-24702-7.
(edited 8 years ago)
I recommend the book 'The Language of God.' It's written by Francis Collin who is an American physician and genitcist(he led the Human Genome Project) and is a convert from Athiesm to Christianity. The book focuses solely on scientific approaches and arguments to support belief in God.
Reply 33
Original post by childofthesun
I recommend the book 'The Language of God.' It's written by Francis Collin who is an American physician and genitcist(he led the Human Genome Project) and is a convert from Athiesm to Christianity. The book focuses solely on scientific approaches and arguments to support belief in God.


im skint i cant afford to buy a book, give me one of his good points and convert me so i can save £9.99
Original post by louissmith501
Provided in quote.

"True in this latest creationist variant, advocates of so-called intelligent design ... use more slick, pseudoscientific language. They talk about things like 'irreducible complexity'" Shulman, Seth (2006). Undermining science: suppression and distortion in the Bush Administration. Berkeley: University of California Press. p. 13. ISBN 0-520-24702-7.


One citation does not prove an argument i'm afraid.
My belief in deity stems purely from the experience of consciousness. I'm aware that we can scientifically explain each sensory and neural part of life, e.g., light receptors/optic nerves, which region of the brain affects what, which neurotransmitters cause which moods etc etc, but I'm referring to the actual feeling of being, which I don't believe we will ever be able to explain scientifically. It's unquantifiable, immeasurable and no amount of anatomical or biochemical knowledge will ever be enough to scientifically explain it.
Original post by mangala
im skint i cant afford to buy a book, give me one of his good points and convert me so i can save £9.99

I'm not interested in converting you.
Free PDF of the book
http://m.friendfeed-media.com/8e745d95541b74f4202150025ce9f4503dd35abd
Original post by HAnwar
Well science will never be able to provide proof of God's existence, however we (Muslims) have our own proof- the Qur'an which was revealed to Prophet Muhammad (SAW).


Out of curiousity what does (SAW) mean? I've seen pbuh plenty of times which I know means "Peace Be Upon Him", I've never seen SAW before.
Original post by john2054
One citation does not prove an argument i'm afraid.


Shanks, Niall; Joplin, Karl H. (1999). "Redundant Complexity: A Critical Analysis of Intelligent Design in Biochemistry". Philosophy of Science (The University of Chicago Press) 66 (2, June): 268–282. doi:10.1086/392687. JSTOR 188646

Coyne, J.A. (1996). "Darwin's Black Box: The Biochemical Challenge to Evolution by MJ Behe". Nature 383 (6597): 227–227. Bibcode:1996Natur.383..227. doi:10.1038/383227b0

Dawkins, Richard (2007-07-01). "Inferior Design". The New York Times.

Myers, Paul (2006-11-22). "Bad books" (php). Pharyngula.
(edited 8 years ago)
Reply 39
Original post by Star Light
My belief in deity stems purely from the experience of consciousness. I'm aware that we can scientifically explain each sensory and neural part of life, e.g., light receptors/optic nerves, which region of the brain affects what, which neurotransmitters cause which moods etc etc, but I'm referring to the actual feeling of being, which I don't believe we will ever be able to explain scientifically. It's unquantifiable, immeasurable and no amount of anatomical or biochemical knowledge will ever be enough to scientifically explain it.


the self-awareness of existence, which i refer you're referring to, comes with intelligence. and although consciousnesses is very difficult to explain at the moment, there's no reason why we wouldn't be able to explain it in the future

Quick Reply

Latest

Trending

Trending