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scientific reasons for believing in god?

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Original post by Good bloke
Individuals that happen to follow those religions, yes. Those religions, no. If you claim for Christianity the credit that slavery was abolished then, I presume, you will be admitting Christianity's guilt for the Holocaust, since it was caused by someone born a Catholic. They are merely the opposite sides of the same coin: if you claim credit for abolition you must accept blame for the Holocaust.




This is your deliberate 'misunderstanding' of what having faith in God is.You can call yourself anything. Being called some thing doesn't make you that thing unless your actions reflect the message you are preaching.

As you preach from the atheist book of faith does that make you responsible then for the atrocities associated with Pol Pot and Stalin?

Hello?????
Original post by Racoon

As you are an atheist does that make you responsible then for the atrocities associated with Pol Pot and Stalin?


No. I was calling you out for claiming on behalf of Christianity the kudos of having abolished slavery, when it had very little (if anything at all) to do with the religion. Christianity acquiesced in slavery for almost two thousand years, and many Christians held slaves, including bishops.

The Christian churches always returned escaped slaves seeking sanctuary to their Roman owners. St Ignatius of Antioch even said that slaves should seek to become better slaves rather than expect the church to purchase their freedom.

And St Paul famously wrote:

Each person should remain in the situation they were in when God called them.

Were you a slave when you were called? Don’t let it trouble you—although if you can gain your freedom, do so.
1 Cor 7:20-21

So let's have no crass claims that Christianity fought, or was even against,slavery. It didn't, and wasn't.
Original post by Racoon

Hello?????


This is not instant messaging, you know.
Original post by dozyrosie
Unfortunately none of these people are part of the Trinity that is God, God nailed his acceptance of slavery to the door, I cannot recall the Jesus part of God ever recanting his acceptance of slavery. I suppose these people that you mention are morally superior to God?



As you obviously have slavery driven into your psyche it would be good to funnel that anger (which is good and righteous) into campaigning against something like this child brides, this and human trafficking is the slavery of the 21st century.

This is enough to make you cry.


http://www.independent.co.uk/news/video-of-child-bride-in-lebanon-shines-spotlight-on-37000-child-marriages-every-day-a6875326.html
Original post by Good bloke
This is not instant messaging, you know.


I know, sorry.
Original post by Good bloke
No. I was calling you out for claiming on behalf of Christianity the kudos of having abolished slavery, when it had very little (if anything at all) to do with the religion. Christianity acquiesced in slavery for almost two thousand years, and many Christians held slaves, including bishops.

The Christian churches always returned escaped slaves seeking sanctuary to their Roman owners. St Ignatius of Antioch even said that slaves should seek to become better slaves rather than expect the church to purchase their freedom.

And St Paul famously wrote:

Each person should remain in the situation they were in when God called them.

Were you a slave when you were called? Don’t let it trouble you—although if you can gain your freedom, do so. 1 Cor 7:20-21

So let's have no crass claims that Christianity fought, or was even against,slavery. It didn't, and wasn't.


I'm sorry but you are wrong.

http://www.jubilee-centre.org/the-abolition-of-the-slave-trade-christian-conscience-and-political-action-by-john-coffey/

The revelation of God unfolds throughout the generations.



Also what you are saying because of the sins of the fathers you carry that sin forever? That is not the Christian message.

In your view then you are responsible for other atheists crimes to humanity.
(edited 8 years ago)
Original post by Racoon
I'm sorry but you are wrong.


No. Almost all politicians of the time were religious. Almost all people of the time were religious. It is inevitable that Christians were involved. Christianity, though, was not involved, and that self-serving website is singularly dishonest in trying to claim the credit. But that is religion for you: a dishonest attempt to exert influence and control on the masses. To add the adjective "Christian" in front of every use of the word "abolitionist" is literally true but dishonest in the extreme as it wrongly implies that Christianity led the way. It didn't. Men's enlightened consciences led the way.

The only truly honest part of that link is:

But most Christians in the early eighteenth century accepted slavery as a fact of life. The evangelist George Whitefield deplored the cruelty of slave-owners in the American South, but did not condemn slavery itself indeed, he owned over fifty slaves in Georgia.

Original post by Racoon

Also what you are saying because of the sins of the fathers you carry that sin forever? That is not the Christian message.

In your view then you are responsible for other atheists crimes to humanity.


I've already told you I don't hold that view. As I have said already, I was merely using your own logic against you to demonstrate how poor your argument was.
Original post by dozyrosie
Virtually every Atheist on the planet would agree that God possibly exists, but what is the liklihood of some God existing? The probability that some specific God exists is even less.

Why have you made a God existing your default belief, considering there is no actual evidence for any supernatural occurrences, surely it is wiser to believe that God does not exist unless evidence is forthcoming?


I think that it is more probable that some 'specific' God is likely to exist. By specific, I mean to say that a God that does not demand the attention of humans, a God that is not involved in human affairs etc...

Probabilistic thinking here isn't in accordance with any general rule of Probabilistic logic. It seems like we rely on our intuition when we say that 'the probability that some specific God exists is even less.' when we're able to deduce qualities of a specific God existing that would also be compatible with out current knowledge that we owe to scientific endeavours.
Original post by Good bloke
I'm sorry, but metaphysics is not a science at all, and has no connection with physics; it is the branch of philosophy that deals with being, knowing and deities.

I'll leave you to find out for yourself what quantum really means and why time cannot travel across one. You'll kick yourself for not looking critically at the true meaning of what people using clever-sounding words are spouting. It is often completely nonsensical, just like your statement about time.


If i had the time and effort i would rewatch the video and provide you with some quotes. However i don't. So suffice to say that quantum and meta physics are often beyond what the rational mind can conclude. You clearly haven't reached this far down the rabbit hole.

Or what about the idea that water is living?
Original post by john2054
If i had the time and effort i would rewatch the video and provide you with some quotes.


I don't want quotes. Quotes from someone who believes metaphysics is a science are worthless.
Theres abit too much that science cant or doesn't answer for me to have complete assurance that there isn't some kind of god lol

I mean, " you dont know what you dont know " right?
Original post by Good bloke
I don't want quotes. Quotes from someone who believes metaphysics is a science are worthless.


stop calling my contributions worhless okay? or i will block you as well
Original post by john2054
stop calling my contributions worhless okay? or i will block you as well


As well as what? Why don't you check the meaning of words you use in the dictionary?
Reply 333
Original post by Racoon
As a Christian if I see God at work in people then they will be displaying the fruits of the Holy Spirit as evidence. These are:

"But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control." Galatians 5:22-23.

If they go against God's laws then they are not showing us God is alive in them. That means their God is non existent. If God is non exist in their lives then they can make up their own rules, and they do.

This is the evil we see in the world today but it goes deeper then that, if you believe in God (as a Christian) you realise there is a spiritual battle going on for the souls of men and the devil is very active. The bible says the devil prowls around the world looking for people to devour.

How clever of the devil to bind all religions up into one bundle and say all religions are bad. You hear atheists saying this all the time 'the world would be a better place without religion'. What they don't realise is that the evil they see is hiding under the name of certain religions, these should not be grouped together.


or you could just be sane and realise that there isnt a red bloke with horns living in the center of the earth controlling all evil
Reply 334
Original post by Racoon
The thing is the bible verses came first, before scientists or NASA published their discoveries.


yes, but all you have done is match bible verses to what the scientists are saying. there are thousands of verses, it's very easy to interpret some in a way which fits with the big bang theory or whatever theory you like.
Reply 335
Original post by ThatOldGuy
I would love to, but I'm afraid you still haven't answered my question as to what sort of evidence you would actually accept AND you still haven't proven your own existence using the methodology you're demanding for God, so I have no idea what you're expecting.

If you could just prove to me that you exist using the same rules you're applying to the conversation about God, I would love to oblige you and do the same, but so far God has more evidence of his existence than you by your own rules, so I'm confused.


nevermind mate your wisdom has converted me to believe in god. im gonna pretend not to understand words whenever someone with common sense tells me im wrong.

what is evidence? be clear ==)
Original post by Good bloke

I've already told you I don't hold that view. As I have said already, I was merely using your own logic against you to demonstrate how poor your argument was.



Of course you don't hold that view because you can see how ludicrous it is to group people under titles? You brought Hitler into the debate saying he was a Catholic.
Original post by Racoon
You brought Hitler into the debate saying he was a Catholic.


You aren't listening are you? I mentioned Hitler to illustrate how silly it is to link an actor's religion to his actions (which is what you were doing).
Original post by mangala
or you could just be sane and realise that there isnt a red bloke with horns living in the center of the earth controlling all evil


A typical Dawkin-esk reply, everyone who believes in God is insane except me, I'm the only sane one here.

You want there to be a God so you can blame Him for all the things that you see are wrong in the world whereas you need to realise there is a devil and he has an agenda.
Original post by Racoon
there is a devil and he has an agenda.


No.That's another fairy tale.

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