scientific reasons for believing in god?

it doesn't say god created a light source, it says god created light. this means that god created light which had no source.

don't you have to believe in god to go to heaven? in that case all animals, except some humans, should go to hell.

The same issues that tends to arise with miracles, also arises with issues such as the paranormal and alternative medicine. William Lane Craig for example completely dismisses the concept of the Flying Spaghetti Monster. Would you argue that he is wrong there in taking such a stance?

Let us start with an example. I reject homeopathy and would only be willing to change my opinion should further strong evidence come to the contrary to prove homeopathy to be a valid form of treatment. This is in fact the whole basis behind evidence based medicine. Would you regard me in this case to be unreasonable and close-minded?



The problem is that it is a mathematical certainty that rare events happen. For example, a person with cancer goes to Lourdes and prays for the week. They come home and they go to doctor and the doctor finds the cancer has gone and s/he cannot explain it. Can the person now claim a miracle to have occurred? I would argue against jumping to such conclusions as it is still perfectly possible that an incredibly rare natural event may have happened that we just don't understand yet.

So much like the person who heard someone call their name, the person who is cured of cancer will speak with complete conviction about their cure. Other people will naturally be sceptical, but they can bring the doctors testimony as evidence. But even if we are to accept that their cancer has suddenly become cured, the truth is that we don't have an explanation for how or why. I believe it a reasonable claim to state "my cancer was cured", but to state that it was a miracle is for me quite a jump that needs more evidence, especially seeing that it is the case with all miracles that what we could be witnessing is in fact just a mathematically probable rare natural event. So to claim a miracle in this case is to claim that a mathematically probable event didn't happen.

In your example about your friend Jim, you were certain that your friend Jim was a good person, it would not be unreasonable to assume that maybe he was hallucinating or that some sort of insanity had come over him that led to him doing something that was out of the ordinary for Jim. So you can witness Jim killing a kitten, but still believe Jim to have a good character. I don't think that to be contradictory.



I am more than willing to accept and believe the former, but I am sceptical that many theists set the bar equally high.

A person might have a brain dysfunction that makes them hallucinate and believe there to be a God???? That's pretty scientific.

Based on what I know animals are not subject to the same moral code as humans, they were not made in God's image. I would hope there are animals in heaven as I have had many pets which I would love to see again and my dog now, I want him in heaven with me.

There are some things we just don't know. That's how it is, but because we have faith to believe God loves us then we hope for certain things and have to leave it with God and trust him.

We have an idea of what heaven will be like but really cannot fully grasp the concept. The bible says "THINGS WHICH EYE HAS NOT SEEN AND EAR HAS NOT HEARD, AND which HAVE NOT ENTERED THE HEART OF MAN, ALL THAT GOD HAS PREPARED FOR THOSE WHO LOVE HIM."

I have a simple faith of trusting God and putting my hope in Him. For me I don't NEED to know all the answers because what I do know is enough.

It doesn't bother me either way. Its a semantic (if that's the right word).

If you want to read some opinions on it then they are in the link I provided. .

Yeah, just like the one that believes all the missing links in the fossil records are there.

unshakable faith is a dangerous thing buddy

Yeah, just like the one that believes all the missing links in the fossil records are there.

It's true. I shook your faith and now you've become a Theist.

I forgot to ask - Which religion are you, now? I have some thoughts.

Yes but then you had monotheism vs polytheism/paganism. I guess you could apply the same for this battle as monotheism is way more orthodox therefore it wins against more flexible practices.

I wouldn't quite go as far as to say "society is collapsing" as of yet. Steven Pinker argues how violence has actually decreased quite well in his "the better angels of our nature", although there has been some criticism of his work. Anyhow, I do believe education is part of the answer (like everyone really) that is why orthodox religion is declining drastically.

What worries me slightly is that we could see a decline in capitalism (or at least pure unregulated libertarian capitalism) as people may not believe in "the invisible hand" anymore

physics is a first degree knowledge, philosophy, and in this case 'metaphysics' is a higher level science

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I think a lot of people think science is a lot more concrete and black and white than it actually is.

A lot of people don't seem to think that the field of science does make huge mistakes. They are told something and then accept that immediately as gold standard.

The idea of the big bang is a lot less solid than people seem to think. They're told, this is what happened. Well, no...this is what we think happened, so far.

Human knowlege (aka science) is very, very limited. So are all the models and methods we have for explaining the world around us.

As for scientific evidence for God. There isn't really any and certainly nothing solid. There also isn't really anything against him either.

In relation to Christianity, it is generally accepted (from non bilblical sources afaik) that Jesus was a real person, was a carpenter, a jewish rabbi and that he lived at the right time and in the right place. Whether he was the son of god or not is another story.

As for God, by his very definition means he can't be tested for. He exists outside of time and space. That alone places him far beyond human comprehension as he doesn't play by our rules in any way. Humanity has a miniscule viewpoint on reality, even smaller when you think we can't see/detect a lot of what may potentially be out there.

We really have to stop telling people how little we know in this way, as it really minimises our achievements and makes it sound like we know far less than we do. When people loose faith in what they know they turn to religion and superstition, and sometimes refuse to believe the science that is thereafter presented to them.

Humans have actually done an incredible job of understanding the universe. The key point here is that our world is undoubtedly a mathematical one, and humans happen to have an impressive ability to understand that maths. Science is not 'human knowledge' then in that sense. Maths is independent and real, if there ever was a gold standard it's proof by mathematics. If there ever was black and white, it's in the suggestions of mathematics. Yes science makes mistakes....they're called theories, which are then overturned when proved wrong....but , and this is the thing to be applauded regarding our race, we are hungry enough to overturn our scientific mistakes and pursue real physical law. I mean, we can look inside an atom and see a fundamental particle, as in one that is likely not divisible; the smallest things in the universe. QED tells us an incredible amount about nearly everything we see around us explained by how light interacts with electrons. We can calculate the size of our universe and describe some of the conditions present a tiny fraction of a second after it's creation. I'm telling you stuff you know, but what do religious texts offer that can even compare? Poetry and metaphors, yet still people cling to these! They are not even completely at odds with scientific theory!

There certainly is no scientific evidence for God, however there is an ever growing body of evidence that assures us that he is not who he has been made out to be as creator/intervener in the religious texts we are still putting our faith in.

Yes Jesus existed, he had a day job and also went around spreading a world view that was ahead of it's time, and is one that I actually really quite like the principles of.

When a person says that God is outside of time and space and doesn't play by our rules, it has the feel of a cop out. It feels like the religious, having learnt some uncomfortable science, have tried to warp and stretch their beliefs around it. It's become linguistics versus mathematics.

As for not being able to see/detect a lot of what is out there, this applies to the physical universe and should not be so casually conflated with what we don't know of God; because we are making progress, we are seeing more and more everyday. It may not be a mystery forever. In theory at least, there may come a day when God has no where left to hide.

As God created the laws of science and logic, his being is free from the restraints of science and cannot be proved using science and logic < that's convenient