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Should i pick philosophy at A levels even though i am a muslim?

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Reply 100
Anyway, if studying philosophy doesn't cause you to question your prior convictions then you aren't studying it properly

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Reply 101
Original post by RobML
Anyway, if studying philosophy doesn't cause you to question your prior convictions then you aren't studying it properly

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It's not questioning my belief thats preventing me from choosing the subject its the possiblity that it will promote athiesm in me. Having doubts is acceptable in islam otherwise i'd be blindly following a religion for the sake of it.
Reply 102
Original post by The Assassin
Tillich/Whitehead's argument for transtheism / process theism
Gale & Pruss cosmological argument
FT by Collins et al
5 ways by Aquinas (the second way specifically)
Duns Scotus cosmontological argument (as Kant called it),
Spinoza's argument in the Ethics


doesn't mean they're all successful but they're all very well-reasoned


The ones there I'm knowledgeable about are as full of holes as Mr Laden's body...

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Original post by RobML
The ones there I'm knowledgeable about are as full of holes as Mr Laden's body...

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Which ones are those?
Reply 104
Original post by The Assassin
Which ones are those?


All but the process theism thingy and FTmabob.
Present those two to me and I'll see how well I can counter them on my own without referencing secondary sources

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(edited 8 years ago)
Original post by RobML
All but the process theism thingy and FTmabob.

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Care to show me some links which show they're full of holes? Because even resources like SEP or the IEP wouldn't say this.

With all due respect, I'm not sure how well you know them. Are you sure you're not mixing some of them up (e.g. Gale/Pruss'/Aquinas with WLC Kalam or Duns Scotus for Augustine)
Reply 106
Original post by The Assassin
Care to show me some links which show they're full of holes? Because even resources like SEP or the IEP wouldn't say this.

With all due respect, I'm not sure how well you know them. Are you sure you're not mixing some of them up (e.g. Gale/Pruss'/Aquinas with WLC Kalam or Duns Scotus for Augustine)


Well technically I'm only knowledgeable about the standard cosmological, ontological and teleological arguments and assumed they were just slight modifications of them. Sorry :tongue:
But yeah, present those arguments to me

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if thats what you want to do then do it

there's no shortage of muslim philosophers
Original post by RobML
Well technically I'm only knowledgeable about the standard cosmological, ontological and teleological arguments and assumed they were just slight modifications of them. Sorry :tongue:
But yeah, present those arguments to me

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I can't present the process theism or transtheism without referencing the literature (which would require you to purchase them)

FT can be found here: https://www.reddit.com/r/askphilosophy/comments/43nufb/what_are_your_most_compelling_arguments_for_the/czjovl9?context=3


More technical analysis can be found here: http://www.commonsenseatheism.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/Collins-The-Teleological-Argument.pdf
(edited 8 years ago)
Reply 110


Awful argument. It completely falls apart when you consider the premise that God, if he existed, would create biological life has zero grounds for being true ("according to traditional theism"- that means nout)

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Original post by RobML
Awful argument. It completely falls apart when you consider the premise that God, if he existed, would create biological life has zero grounds for being true ("according to traditional theism"- that means nout)

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oh dear.. Well uh, let's see what the professional says!
(edited 8 years ago)
Reply 112
Original post by The Assassin
oh dear.. Well uh, let's see what the professional says!


Huh?
literally don't know what you're saying there

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(edited 8 years ago)
Original post by RobML
Awful argument. It completely falls apart when you consider the premise that God, if he existed, would create biological life has zero grounds for being true ("according to traditional theism"- that means nout)

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Not at all; it's very good. Here is an example of what Collins explains

Spoiler

Astrophysicist Luke Barnes suggests to look for explanations like God by saying The proposition (call it C for chance) “it is not true that the laws of nature were chosen with intelligent life in mind” is not a necessary truth. It is a hypothesis which could be false, and thus should be tested. It needs to be compared to alternative hypotheses. Simply calling alternative hypotheses “life chauvinism” assumes that they are false. It takes as certain the very thing that we are debating. the fine-tuning of the universe for life shows that the probability that a universe for which C is true is very unlikely to be life-permitting. Thus, given that this universe is life-permitting, we do what we always do when a hypotheses implies that an observed fact is extremely unlikely. We don’t just say “and yet, there it is.” We go looking for alternative hypotheses.

So why would God want to create life (such that the the probability theism isn't low?). The reason is that God is imagined to be morally perfect, and conscious life is thought to be pro tanto good -- this conform to a long-standing thought that God would want to create a life-permitting universe. Furthermore, it is at least prima facie reasonable to think that God would want to create the universe in such a way that we would value life as something that is rare and fragile. Many forms of theism don't predict this, however traditional theism happens to support this notion - so, as per the comment from Barnes above, we look to these hypotheses as they have at least some plausibility. Since we evaluate evidence based on which event is more likely under a certain hypothesis, this being a life-sustaining universe is evidence for the theistic hypothesis.

----------------------------------------------------------------


Ultimately, this isn't proof but what it shows, if successful,

(1) that the fine-tuning of the universe supports the theory that God exists as against the theory that God does not exist

(2) whatever probability you assigned to the existence of God before encountering these facts about the fine-tuning of the universe, you should raise your probability assignment significantly.

hence, for logical form, then we're given:

Spoiler

http://www.commonsenseatheism.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/Collins-The-Teleological-Argument.pdf (here's a very good explanation)
(edited 8 years ago)
Well I have a Muslim friend who picked Philosophy and she still believes in God. If anything, I think her belief got even stronger :tongue:
It's a very interesting subject. I didn't really study philosophy as a whole A-level subject but I studied R.E and within R.E I studied philosophy. At first I was like what they hell is this because it totally goes against my religion but after a while it got really interesting that I loved so you should really give it a go.
P.s I got an A for it.
Original post by RobML
Putting faith ahead of logic is such postmodern nonsense

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Agreed but isn't that what, for example, the westboro baptist church do? They'd rather put their faith in a few lines of the bible specifically picked out than actually look at the bigger picture and what society is saying.
Reply 117
Original post by YesAllMen
Not at all; it's very good. Here is an example of what Collins explains

Spoiler

Astrophysicist Luke Barnes suggests to look for explanations like God by saying The proposition (call it C for chance) “it is not true that the laws of nature were chosen with intelligent life in mind” is not a necessary truth. It is a hypothesis which could be false, and thus should be tested. It needs to be compared to alternative hypotheses. Simply calling alternative hypotheses “life chauvinism” assumes that they are false. It takes as certain the very thing that we are debating. the fine-tuning of the universe for life shows that the probability that a universe for which C is true is very unlikely to be life-permitting. Thus, given that this universe is life-permitting, we do what we always do when a hypotheses implies that an observed fact is extremely unlikely. We don’t just say “and yet, there it is.” We go looking for alternative hypotheses.

So why would God want to create life (such that the the probability theism isn't low?). The reason is that God is imagined to be morally perfect, and conscious life is thought to be pro tanto good -- this conform to a long-standing thought that God would want to create a life-permitting universe. Furthermore, it is at least prima facie reasonable to think that God would want to create the universe in such a way that we would value life as something that is rare and fragile. Many forms of theism don't predict this, however traditional theism happens to support this notion - so, as per the comment from Barnes above, we look to these hypotheses as they have at least some plausibility. Since we evaluate evidence based on which event is more likely under a certain hypothesis, this being a life-sustaining universe is evidence for the theistic hypothesis.

----------------------------------------------------------------


Ultimately, this isn't proof but what it shows, if successful,

(1) that the fine-tuning of the universe supports the theory that God exists as against the theory that God does not exist

(2) whatever probability you assigned to the existence of God before encountering these facts about the fine-tuning of the universe, you should raise your probability assignment significantly.

hence, for logical form, then we're given:

Spoiler

http://www.commonsenseatheism.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/Collins-The-Teleological-Argument.pdf (here's a very good explanation)


Still not convinced:

1) Seems like an elaborate God of gaps fallacy- a God of extreme unlikeliness fallacy, if you will

2) As I've said, it's based on completely arbitrary assumptions about God

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Reply 118
Original post by Zed1_.
I am currently doing my gcse's and i plan to do philosophy, psychology, economics and business studies at A level. However, despite my interest in philosophy i am quite worried about if it would break my islamic faith. I'll be honest, i don't actually follow the religion. I don't pray, i commit sins and so on but i am happy being a muslim but i am concerned as to whether the theories and questions of god's existence will destroy my faith.

Thanks.


Hi!

I did the AS level last year with my GCSE's and I found it really interesting.
I believe in God and doing philosophy did not changed that but rather, changed my understanding of God and how other people (philosophers) viewed God themselves. A lot of the time, you explore the concept of God through the eyes of different philosophers and not really your own; I think you do that in A2. I think that philosophy is a good subject to pick as it means you get a better understanding of the beliefs of others and your own beliefs too.

Hope this helped
Original post by TorpidPhil
Why doesn't it? The fact of the matter is that such attitudes shouldn't be tolerated in the slightest. I don't give a **** if the person with them is young or not. It's ridiculous. It's like someone who genuinely doesn't see why beating up everyone who annoys them is not the proper way to live. It's that stupid. So no tolerance of it should be accepted at all imo.


If you asked 100 toddlers about it I think a decent chunk of them would have that mentality.

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