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scientific reasons for believing in god?

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Original post by thisgalkate
I don't take back anything I said. I don't know who you are or why you feel the need to express your opinion in such an aggressive way but I am not going to argue with you over something that no one can truly prove. Nice knowing you xx

If no one can truly "prove" then why are you trotting it out as fact?

But the actuality is that your statements can be falsified - and have been many times over the years when this idiocy is cut/pasted on message boards.
Original post by viomily
Is it really possible that we are just all here by chance and everything has formed all by itself? Could everything really evolved to this extent all by itself? Where did gravity come from? Where did matter come from? Consider how comparable maths and physics are, how all the elements have formed in a way that provide all the resources for life to live and evolve, how consciousness and life exists in the first place. I used to be agnostic btw but I just find the existence of the universe and us all too incredible to have happened by chance. I also just feel a real connection to my faith and, I know it's cheesy, but more in awe and 'at one' with the world. So that is basically my life view :smile:

What you are stating is an appeal from personal incredulity. Logically about as weak a premise as possible.
Original post by MevMev
ok so firstly i find it very offensive that u call me 'too lazy to think and do research" seeing as I'm a MEDICAL STUDENT and i think i have better things to do than prove my faith to u and lol u just wasted your own time on me how counterproductive
and loooool do u think it literally means stitching with needle and thread?? :P
@Al-Qamar


Errrrr
I actually feel like the nature of this topic is stupid, the whole argument is fundamentally flawed, i dont believe or dis-believe in god by the way.

But, SCIENTIFIC proof that GOD exists?

If you know anything about how people perceive 'God', then you should already know that a large part of the reason people believe in him (or her) is because there is absolutely NOO scientific proof that he exists. The 'proof' to people are what we call 'miracles', things that science CANNOT explain. And these are documented cases, not just stories in the bible about a man who could touch you and make you walk again, or someone who could turn water to wine, these are real, well documented things that science cannot explain, thus, are simply dubbed 'miracles' OR for the 'non believers' - Scientific Anomalies. If God does not exist, and we are clear that some things cant be quantified and explained, what do you put 'those' kind of events down to?

The whole idea of God is that he is the higher entity that watches over us as a human race (or universe?). It would be IMPOSSIBLE to scientifically prove that he exists. Its almost like its a rhetorical question.

What proof do people genuinely expect? A picture of him sitting on heavens beaches drinking a coke?

Is there any scientific proof that life on other planets exist? There is plenty of evidence to suggest that there is, but it has not been PROVEN, and frankly it will never be PROVEN until there is 100% confirmation of extra terrestrials, either through them coming here, or through us finding them, nothing science has done can confirm that there is life out there, but who in here is really stupid enough to believe that in this whole galaxy, we are the only ones that are there?

The absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence

With all that being said, if there is a God, and he is who so many people believe he is, then he is clearly not a very nice person. I hope he doesn't exist, because the day i met him i would have to ask 'why?', why so much suffering? why so much injustice? why uni fee's so high? why caitlyn jenner? just, WHY?

Anyway, like i said, this whole thing is stupid to be honest
(edited 8 years ago)
Original post by Al-Qamar
Why am i quoted on this???


Sorry, but she/he can quote whom they wish to :smile:
Original post by leavingthecity
Errrrr


By the way, that person is telling you all you need to know about most medical doctors. And that is that they have no familiarity whatsoever with the scientific method or ideas behind scientific inference. Good for prescribing aspirin and putting a broken arm in plaster but that's about it.
I believe there is one: insanity.
Original post by viomily
Is it really possible that we are just all here by chance and everything has formed all by itself? Could everything really evolved to this extent all by itself? Where did gravity come from? Where did matter come from? Consider how comparable maths and physics are, how all the elements have formed in a way that provide all the resources for life to live and evolve, how consciousness and life exists in the first place. I used to be agnostic btw but I just find the existence of the universe and us all too incredible to have happened by chance. I also just feel a real connection to my faith and, I know it's cheesy, but more in awe and 'at one' with the world. So that is basically my life view :smile:


There's a physical or mathematical explanation for all your questions, I have the same questions and that's how I get my answers. Obviously I don't have all the answers but so much of this can be explained already, it's truly amazing, human curiosity and intelligence is amazing.

You ask whether it's possible that we are here by chance. You answered yourself; if there was a chance we could be here, and we are, technically you shouldn't be surprised. Chance and probability are fascinating areas of mathematics that I need to learn more about, they certainly are at odds with many religious ideas.
Original post by KungPooPanda
I actually feel like the nature of this topic is stupid, the whole argument is fundamentally flawed, i dont believe or dis-believe in god by the way.

But, SCIENTIFIC proof that GOD exists?

If you know anything about how people perceive 'God', then you should already know that a large part of the reason people believe in him (or her) is because there is absolutely NOO scientific proof that he exists. The 'proof' to people are what we call 'miracles', things that science CANNOT explain. And these are documented cases, not just stories in the bible about a man who could touch you and make you walk again, or someone who could turn water to wine, these are real, well documented things that science cannot explain, thus, are simply dubbed 'miracles' OR for the 'non believers' - Scientific Anomalies. If God does not exist, and we are clear that some things cant be quantified and explained, what do you put 'those' kind of events down to?

The whole idea of God is that he is the higher entity that watches over us as a human race (or universe?). It would be IMPOSSIBLE to scientifically prove that he exists. Its almost like its a rhetorical question.

What proof do people genuinely expect? A picture of him sitting on heavens beaches drinking a coke?

Is there any scientific proof that life on other planets exist? There is plenty of evidence to suggest that there is, but it has not been PROVEN, and frankly it will never be PROVEN until there is 100% confirmation of extra terrestrials, either through them coming here, or through us finding them, nothing science has done can confirm that there is life out there, but who in here is really stupid enough to believe that in this whole galaxy, we are the only ones that are there?

The absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence

With all that being said, if there is a God, and he is who so many people believe he is, then he is clearly not a very nice person. I hope he doesn't exist, because the day i met him i would have to ask 'why?', why so much suffering? why so much injustice? why uni fee's so high? why caitlyn jenner? just, WHY?

Anyway, like i said, this whole thing is stupid to be honest


Why Caitlyn Jenner made me laugh, it shouldn't have I guess.

What I'd want is proof of intervention, proof that he sometimes has dealings with us, proof that he has a finger on some scale. I see nothing of the sort.
Original post by leavingthecity
Errrrr


yeah don't call me lazy- its not nice
Original post by Al-Qamar
Why am i quoted on this???


thought you would find it funny thats why:P
Original post by MevMev
thought you would find it funny thats why:P


was hilarious mate
Original post by Al-Qamar
was hilarious mate


you're welcome :wink:
Original post by pvaz6965
By the way, that person is telling you all you need to know about most medical doctors. And that is that they have no familiarity whatsoever with the scientific method or ideas behind scientific inference. Good for prescribing aspirin and putting a broken arm in plaster but that's about it.


They're stingy when it comes to spending NHS money and apparently stingy in offering up research and evidence in debate.

I'm way ahead of this guy, for the past few years I've googled my own symptoms for the benefit of my doctor before I turn up for an appointment.
Original post by leavingthecity
They're stingy when it comes to spending NHS money and apparently stingy in offering up research and evidence in debate.

I'm way ahead of this guy, for the past few years I've googled my own symptoms for the benefit of my doctor before I turn up for an appointment.


Your typical GP is someone with a Bachelors degree in a vocational subject - human physiology and anatomy. The only science they have ever done is maybe A level Chemistry and Biology and some rudimentary pharmacology and biochemistry at med school. They have no experience of research or utilising scientific methodology or inference. That is why you'll notice when the Creationist nutjobs trot out their so called scientists they are very frequently medical doctors or vets. i.e. not scientists at all.
Original post by leavingthecity
Why Caitlyn Jenner made me laugh, it shouldn't have I guess.

What I'd want is proof of intervention, proof that he sometimes has dealings with us, proof that he has a finger on some scale. I see nothing of the sort.


Depends who your asking though doesn't it?

Ask a mother who was told she has 0% chance of conceiving a baby, and even less than 0% chance of delivering a healthy baby, who now has a 10 year old son what she thinks, especially when all the doctors could not explain it, she may tell you that she believes its the work of God. And IF you CANNOT (under any circumstances) provide a scientific explanation, how could you (not you personally) or anyone else deny the presence of 'God'? Or that he does in-fact have some 'direct' dealings with us or his finger on SOME scale?

There are many examples like this ^^, and while you may turn around and say they have nothing to do with God, someone else would say they are all CLEAR examples that he exists, what or who should decide who is right or wrong here? No one can decide, which is why i think this is a flawed argument

People who generally don't believe in god will do all they can to prove he doesn't exist through science, and when science cannot explain it, they turn to 'Scientific Anomaly', which is a way to basically acknowledge that something extremely unordinary has happened, which cant be 'explained', but is clearly still somehow explainable through science (somehow)

Someone who believes in god however, is happy to accept that both can (or do) exist, one doesnt have to dis-prove another, you can take your sick child to church and pray for them, while they are on the medicine that the doc has provided.
Original post by pvaz6965
Your typical GP is someone with a Bachelors degree in a vocational subject - human physiology and anatomy. The only science they have ever done is maybe A level Chemistry and Biology and some rudimentary pharmacology and biochemistry at med school. They have no experience of research or utilising scientific methodology or inference. That is why you'll notice when the Creationist nutjobs trot out their so called scientists they are very frequently medical doctors or vets. i.e. not scientists at all.


Wherever and whatever he is studying, he is practically a finished product with that arrogance.
Original post by MevMev
you're welcome :wink:


I was being sarcastic...
Original post by KungPooPanda
Depends who your asking though doesn't it?

Ask a mother who was told she has 0% chance of conceiving a baby, and even less than 0% chance of delivering a healthy baby, who now has a 10 year old son what she thinks, especially when all the doctors could not explain it, she may tell you that she believes its the work of God. And IF you CANNOT (under any circumstances) provide a scientific explanation, how could you (not you personally) or anyone else deny the presence of 'God'? Or that he does in-fact have some 'direct' dealings with us or his finger on SOME scale?

There are many examples like this ^^, and while you may turn around and say they have nothing to do with God, someone else would say they are all CLEAR examples that he exists, what or who should decide who is right or wrong here? No one can decide, which is why i think this is a flawed argument

People who generally don't believe in god will do all they can to prove he doesn't exist through science, and when science cannot explain it, they turn to 'Scientific Anomaly', which is a way to basically acknowledge that something extremely unordinary has happened, which cant be 'explained', but is clearly still somehow explainable through science (somehow)

Someone who believes in god however, is happy to accept that both can (or do) exist, one doesnt have to dis-prove another, you can take your sick child to church and pray for them, while they are on the medicine that the doc has provided.

Personal anecdotes are worthless.

Isn't it more far more likely the initial diagnosis was incomplete or in error? As opposed to appealing to an adult fairy tale with no evidence whatsoever?

Also isn't it funny - you'll accept the science when it is in your story's favour (0% chance of this and that) - but reject the science when it is not in your story's favour. That's called bias by the way.

Which is why personal anecdotes from lay people are utterly worthless.
Original post by Howard
I think Einstein may have retained some sort of belief precisely because he couldn't find a scientific justification to eliminate God rather than because he had a scientific justification to believe in God. In other words, Einstein's luke warm belief was based on faith, just like everybody else's is. He was willing to stuff god into the gap of scientific knowledge. But let's not forget that Einstein was writing 100 years ago - were he alive today we might speculate that he would be less willing to do that.

The Big Bang is a scientific theory. That means we can be a certain about the big bang as we can about germ theory, atomic theory, the theory of gravity, and so on. A scientific theory isn't a hypothesis - it's certain and demonstrable scientific fact. And for that reason you should accept it for what it is. I agree though that acceptance of the Big Bang as science would not necessarily affect a person's belief in god.

No I think Einstein had a somewhat strong belief in some sort of superior being or force which he seems to outline is several quotes. He doesn't however believe in a personal God who accounts for morals but nonetheless he seems to believe in so sort of creator of higher intelligence. And of course he may have changed these views today but I highly doubt it due to new scientific equations, formulas and ideas BOTH going for and against the concept of God creating the universe.

I do understand what you're saying about how a theory holds a grand. It must have a substantial amount of reliability, reasoning and evidence in order to be called a theory. Then again theories are always conflicting each other due to new ones being made every now and then. For example, the theories of light being a wave or a particle. Hence, there might yet be upcoming theories which go against the big bang. And these doubts in this theory allow us to have a choice on whether to accept it or not. I read about a couple of atheists who like to think of the universe being eternal and they have actually provided facts to back up their views.

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