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Feminist reaction to kesha contract trial shows why it's scary to be accused of rape.

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Original post by Mancini
loool hilarious

Try not to call them a victim, at that moment they are simply the accuser.


It's typical for trolls to be that way. Enjoy life.
Reply 81
Original post by hunihuni
You can easily dismiss my point by calling it "nonsense". How can you be sure that the media is making up false information to make her look bad? Let's not pretend the media isn't biased and notorious for this


You just keep posting nonsense lol now the media is making things up lool.

All I've read is the media reporting things from the court room and the words of Sony music label lol.

You go ahead and believe in your conspiracy theories.
Original post by Mancini
Who say's it's not? I can't believe you used the word kinda lol are you telling me some victims of rape are sometimes actually not scared?


Imagine me giving you sideeyes while saying it as a response to hearing the title of this thread. It's pretty crazy that you would take a story that focusses on a woman who is clearly in distress (if you've seen the pictures of the trial) and use it as a chance to think of people who are accused of rape. If you're bothered by false accusations then by all means start a thread to discuss that issue, but in a world where many women are scared of coming forward after going through something so horrific maybe don't use someone's emotional experience as a chance to raise the false accusation thing.
Reply 83
Original post by hunihuni
It's typical for trolls to be that way. Enjoy life.


Omg I could not see this coming the 'troll' accusation.
Original post by joecphillips
No I haven't said anything like that at all you disagree with what I am saying and putting me in a box with people who think that because you know that what I have said has validity and you dislike that.

I have said my position on this and that there is a section of 'feminists' who think what you said not the lot of them.

Is the only way you won't group me with people like that is if I say oh Ivybridge you are so correct all feminists are the greatest and should be given obe's?


I think a degree of what you have said has validity - I'm not sure why you think I wouldn't like that.

No, I just don't think those people are feminists. They don't live up to what it actually means to be a feminist. But I've said that like three times now and you still don't get it so it's best to agree to disagree.
Original post by Mancini
loool hilarious

Try not to call them a victim, at that moment they are simply the accuser.


If it happened to them they are a victim whether it has been recognised by a court of law or not. Their internal experience is that of a victim.
Original post by ivybridge
You haven't said it bluntly but you're arguing against me in support of those that are saying things along said lines. Don't be a pedant, lmfao.


I suppose the pertinent point here is that mainstream feminism - or at least mainstream third wave feminism - is becoming increasingly radical. I think this is a fairly reasonable claim to make; the most commonly portrayed and widely held feminist views are becoming increasingly extreme. If you choose to eschew this, then good for you. But you can't really say those people aren't feminists, when they would claim that they are.

With regards people supporting kesha in this case, I'd say that whilst this is born of misandry rather than necessarily feminism, the increasingly extreme third wave feminists have a case to answer for spreading misandry especially with regard rape cases. I mean, the new laws recently passed in Britain with regard rape accusations are frankly disgusting in my opinion; they essentially say the emphasis is on the man to prove it wasn't rape, rather than vice versa. And it is pretty undeniable that this change in law was a direct consequence of pressure from feminist groups.
Original post by Luke Kostanjsek
I suppose the pertinent point here is that mainstream feminism - or at least mainstream third wave feminism - is becoming increasingly radical. I think this is a fairly reasonable claim to make; the most commonly portrayed and widely held feminist views are becoming increasingly extreme. If you choose to eschew this, then good for you. But you can't really say those people aren't feminists, when they would claim that they are.

With regards people supporting kesha in this case, I'd say that whilst this is born of misandry rather than necessarily feminism, the increasingly extreme third wave feminists have a case to answer for spreading misandry especially with regard rape cases. I mean, the new laws recently passed in Britain with regard rape accusations are frankly disgusting in my opinion; they essentially say the emphasis is on the man to prove it wasn't rape, rather than vice versa. And it is pretty undeniable that this change in law was a direct consequence of pressure from feminist groups.


This could be because of stats that argue that only a minute percentage of those accused of rape are convicted; I don't think that's because a mass percentage are lying.
Reply 88
Original post by mscaffrey
Imagine me giving you sideeyes while saying it as a response to hearing the title of this thread. It's pretty crazy that you would take a story that focusses on a woman who is clearly in distress (if you've seen the pictures of the trial) and use it as a chance to think of people who are accused of rape. If you're bothered by false accusations then by all means start a thread to discuss that issue, but in a world where many women are scared of coming forward after going through something so horrific maybe don't use someone's emotional experience as a chance to raise the false accusation thing.


You clearly have never heard of crocodile tears lol I pity you.

Also it's someone's alleged 'emotional experience' there is no proof this event actually happened. What other option is there to choose from except the fact that it's a possible false accusation lol unless you are saying she's just nuts?
Original post by Mancini
Omg I could not see this coming the 'troll' accusation.


Because there seems to be something wrong with everyone who disagrees with you, according to you. But I guess that's just ignorance.
Original post by Mancini
You clearly have never heard of crocodile tears lol I pity you.


You are finding literally every excuse to say she's wrong. Every single one. The lengths you are going to are frightening. Accept that it is still a possibility that he did it because you are not staying true to your own line of argument - innocent until proven guilty; she is innocent of lying until she is definitively proven to be lying.
Reply 91
Original post by mscaffrey
If it happened to them they are a victim whether it has been recognised by a court of law or not. Their internal experience is that of a victim.


Until it's proven it's happened it has only 'allegedly' happened and I will not take it as a fact. I can't really care what their internal experience is to be honest.

This thread is also not about false rape accusations but a trial so stick to the subject.
Original post by mscaffrey
If it happened to them they are a victim whether it has been recognised by a court of law or not. Their internal experience is that of a victim.


While that's true - And if it is, I feel a tremendous amount of empathy for her and wish her well in healing - But if it didn't happen to them, then technically he is the victim.

Should we begin sentences with, "The victim is being accused of rape right now"?

Did that sentence cause you to feel a bit defensive?(Not pushing - I'm honestly curious) Because if it did, can you see how wording can convict a person without evidence?

I don't know the first thing about the case and haven't bothered looking it up - He could be guilty or innocent, but it is important for the courts to decide that and the punishment to decide that as well.

One narrative: It happened and she is a scared and vulnerable person who should be protected.
A second narrative: She wants out of a contract to be free to sign with another label and is willing to destroy a man's life to get it.

One of those is true, but we have no way of knowing which one it is and so it probably would be better to just let the courts work on it without interference or letting it affect us in any way until we know.
Original post by Mancini
You clearly have never heard of crocodile tears lol I pity you.

Also it's someone's alleged 'emotional experience' there is no proof this event actually happened. What other option is there to choose from except the fact that it's a possible false accusation lol unless you are saying she's just nuts?


There's also no proof that it didn't happen, which is why it's inappropriate to use it as the subject of a 'let's think about the poor people who are accused of rape' thread.

And please don't patronise me. If you have an argument, use it. There's no need for I pity you.
Reply 94
Original post by hunihuni
Because there seems to be something wrong with everyone who disagrees with you, according to you. But I guess that's just ignorance.


Hey if you can bring the court proof that their was a rape be my guest until then all you Kesha supporters are just speculating and finding a man guilty on her word. In fact the trial has found him mostly inoccent lol it's me who's thinking logically not you.
Original post by Mancini
Until it's proven it's happened it has only 'allegedly' happened and I will not take it as a fact. I can't really care what their internal experience is to be honest.

This thread is also not about false rape accusations but a trial so stick to the subject.


You might want to look at the title you gave the thread. 'Feminist blah blah blah shows why it's scary to be accused of rape'
Original post by ivybridge
This could be because of stats that argue that only a minute percentage of those accused of rape are convicted; I don't think that's because a mass percentage are lying.


Are you referring to the change in law? if so, I think it's utterly heinous that we have abandoned the idea of innocent until proven guilty, which I'd argue is meant to be sacrosanct in British law. I mean, practically, if I were to hook up with someone, how on earth could i prove the act was consensual the next day?

And just out of interest, would you agree that mainstream feminism is becoming increasingly radical?
Reply 97
Original post by mscaffrey
There's also no proof that it didn't happen, which is why it's inappropriate to use it as the subject of a 'let's think about the poor people who are accused of rape' thread.

And please don't patronise me. If you have an argument, use it. There's no need for I pity you.


The onus is on the accuser to prove a 'alleged' rapists guilt lol sorry but I have to pity you if you actually just believe a lady because she sheds few tears. Men you used to be hanged , inoccent men based on a women's tears, so excuse me for not following your bs.
Original post by Luke Kostanjsek
Are you referring to the change in law? if so, I think it's utterly heinous that we have abandoned the idea of innocent until proven guilty, which I'd argue is meant to be sacrosanct in British law. I mean, practically, if I were to hook up with someone, how on earth could i prove the act was consensual the next day?

And just out of interest, would you agree that mainstream feminism is becoming increasingly radical?


No, I wouldn't. I would agree that people are paying the most attention to radicals and they are the ones being given media coverage. I don't think the vast majority support those ideas.
Reply 99
Original post by ivybridge
I think a degree of what you have said has validity - I'm not sure why you think I wouldn't like that.

No, I just don't think those people are feminists. They don't live up to what it actually means to be a feminist. But I've said that like three times now and you still don't get it so it's best to agree to disagree.


I do get that you don't think those people are feminists however it goes back to are Isis Muslim? People will have different answers and overall the term feminist has more branches now and radical feminism is the Isis of feminism, personally I say if someone identifies as a feminist they are one.

And like I have also said is germane Greer a feminist?

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