Get Putin out of Syria

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You do realise rebels are effectively ISIS? They just have a pretty name, all in all they are extremists and terrorists as well. We should be celebrating the death of every rebel.

I'm not even Russian or Syrian but I admire Putin and Assad with all my heart.

Do the rebels or the Kurds want to establish a worldwide Muslim caliphate and destroy America, and send radicalised foreign nationals to France, Germany, Britain to attempt to kill in their name?

They are not terrorists, they may be brutal, but they are not targeting western civilians in their attacks, and they are certainly not looking to execute gay people or kill christians.

And you admire Assad and Putin? Assad incendiary bombed and barrel bombed his own people, if you admire that, then you are lost.

Reply 21

Harrie Lyons

Original post by Free Kurdistan

I'm not Sunni lol.

I do agree it's impossible to discuss on here because all of the Sunni kids close ranks against Assad but in terms of absolute numbers, Assad with have killed more.

http://www.businessinsider.com/assads-government-still-kills-way-more-civilians-than-isis-2015-2?IR=T

I don't think using a body count to assess the relative moralities of the two groups is helpful however; the goals of Daesh are more damaging than those of Assad for example

Thank you, a sane and reasonable reply, I agree.
I suppose we just have differing perceptions of what makes a group or leader 'harmful'.
Personally I believe Nazi Germany was more harmful than Soviet Russia even though the latter technically let more of its citizens die in terms of brute quantity.

Not you again.

Original post by Harrie Lyons

Oh don't get me wrong, I would side with Assad over Islamic State, mainly because Islamic State have decided that terror attacks on Western targets are a legitimate strategy and because Assad's end goal is stay in power and rule over Syria, while Daesh's end goal is take over Europe, kill anyone who is neither Muslim nor has a dhimmi status.There is also an argument of 'could do' over have done, if Islamic State had the weapons and man power of Assad, their moral compass would lead to them killing far more people than Assad, it's like how loads of people you might chat with at the pub would commit a genocide if they could, but they're too stupid/lacking charisma to actually be in a position of being able to do it, doesn't make them any better as people though

I'm just aware of my own selfishness and hypocrisy in seeing the guy who's killed the most people as the least worst option only because he doesn't kill people in Europe.

(edited 8 years ago)

Reply 24

Callous Twits

Original post by Free Kurdistan

There is also an argument of 'could do' over have done, if Islamic State had the weapons and man power of Assad, their moral compass would lead to them killing far more people than Assad, it's like how loads of people you might chat with at the pub would commit a genocide if they could, but they're too stupid/lacking charisma to actually be in a position of being able to do it, doesn't make them any better as people though

Like Hamas/IDF?

Reply 25

Free Kurdistan

Original post by Callous Twits

Like Hamas/IDF?

Yes, if I were a Muslim I would support Palestinian nationalism.

A similar thing is a while back when you raised the point of people using Israel's gay rights/democracy to justify Israel's actions to Westerners.

I'm fully aware that logically this does not follow. Gay rights/democracy >/ it's ok to break international law, but most people in the West support democracy and gay rights so this argument is pushed, not because people genuinely think one point follows the other, but because Israel is presented as the option which isn't plotting to undermine the things Europeans/Americans cherish. The Palestinian side does the same thing when they appeal to people's vanity and present Palestine as the new South Africa to be solved.

Reply 26

Callous Twits

Original post by Free Kurdistan

I'm fully aware that logically this does not follow. Gay rights/democracy >/ it's ok to break international law, but most people in the West support democracy and gay rights so this argument is pushed, not because people genuinely think one point follows the other, but because Israel is presented as the option which isn't plotting to undermine the things Europeans/Americans cherish. The Palestinian side does the same thing when they appeal to people's vanity and present Palestine as the new South Africa to be solved.

I'm not sure I agree entirely, but an interesting perspective nonetheless.

Reply 27

HucktheForde

ISIS is not the problem alone, islamic extermist is, which many of those targets of russia bombing are, and ISIS has affiliate groups, many among the rebel groups. But you are right, Russia has not bomb ISIS much.

Reply 28

KimKallstrom

Original post by Harrie Lyons

Assad has done more harm than ISIS?
Go **** yourself

ISIS are cockroaches and anybody who defends them, rationalises their actions in ways that spread blame for them or who sympathises with them in any way, shape or form is a cockroach.

But Assad probably has done more harm than them. Hell, Assad is the one who started and escalated this entire conflict. I know the delusional RT viewers and Putinbots won't hear it, but it's true. Just because ISIS are dispicable it doesn't mean Assad isn't.