Feminist reaction to kesha contract trial shows why it's scary to be accused of rape.
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Original post by Bornblue
Nop. Judged on a percentage of all reported crimes that end in a conviction. For rape this is 6%. Over 80% do not reach trial.
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Well like I've already said, I disagree with the methodology.
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Original post by TheTechN1304
There's no evidence to suggest he raped her
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Original post by Underscore__
Well that's daft.
Especially in a crime like rape where so many cases drop out before trial for a variety of reasons.
6% of all cases reported for rape end up in a conviction and the British Crime Survey estimates that only around 15% of offences are reported to the Police in the first place.
Your purposely ignoring these facts.
Also your 57% figure is off. 57% of those that are charged are convicted, but not all for rape, some get cautions and convictions for lesser offences.
The total amoutn of trial cases that result in a conviction for rape is around 35%
(edited 8 years ago)
Original post by TheTechN1304
She swore under oath that he did not rape her or behave in any way inappropriately.
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Original post by DiddyDec
Would be great to see the reaction of her supporters when she would be held liable, since they expected an innocent person to be convicted on the basis of a mere statement from a celebrity who has a clear motive as to doing so and clearly didn't expect a retaliation from him. They'd be like "oh no, you can't convict a woman on the basis of evidence, you can only convict a man on the grounds of her saying so" lol.
Original post by 0123456543210
Would be great to see the reaction of her supporters when she would be held liable, since they expected an innocent person to be convicted on the basis of a mere statement from a celebrity who has a clear motive as to doing so and clearly didn't expect a retaliation from him. They'd be like "oh no, you can't convict a woman on the basis of evidence, you can only convict a man on the grounds of her saying so" lol.
He is also suing her lawyer for a separate deformation claim saying he raped Lady Gaga.
Kesha has also sworn under oath that Dr Luke did not rape her back in 2011. Evidence is a bitch.
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Original post by TheTechN1304
Well she has lied at least once regarding this so yes it is the face of a liar.
(edited 8 years ago)
Original post by Bornblue
Well that's daft.
Especially in a crime like rape where so many cases drop out before trial for a variety of reasons.
6% of all cases reported for rape end up in a conviction and the British Crime Survey estimates that only around 15% of offences are reported to the Police in the first place.
Especially in a crime like rape where so many cases drop out before trial for a variety of reasons.
6% of all cases reported for rape end up in a conviction and the British Crime Survey estimates that only around 15% of offences are reported to the Police in the first place.
The British crime survey doesn't give facts it's gives estimates. It's incredibly unreliable seeing as anyone can submit any answer they like. Most people don't have a complete understanding of what rape is so asking someone if they've been raped is a bit stupid.
Original post by Bornblue
Your purposely ignoring these facts.
Also your 57% figure is off. 57% of those that are charged are convicted, but not all for rape, some get cautions and convictions for lesser offences.
The total amoutn of trial cases that result in a conviction for rape is around 35%
Also your 57% figure is off. 57% of those that are charged are convicted, but not all for rape, some get cautions and convictions for lesser offences.
The total amoutn of trial cases that result in a conviction for rape is around 35%
Any evidence for that?
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Original post by Underscore__
The British crime survey doesn't give facts it's gives estimates. It's incredibly unreliable seeing as anyone can submit any answer they like. Most people don't have a complete understanding of what rape is so asking someone if they've been raped is a bit stupid.
Any evidence for that?
Any evidence for that?
No it's not stupid, it's done for all crimes and is academically and widely held as not perfect but the best we have and is pretty good at that.
It also finds out why those who felt they had been raped did not come forward. To simply dismiss it as you have done is quite daft. Because i'm sure you've quoted figures from it before relating to domestic abuse.
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Yep https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/214970/sexual-offending-overview-jan-2013.pdf
See the table on page 7.
Only 6% of rape reports end in a conviction. Unless you think 94% of women make them up (of which there is no evidence that false allegations are anything other than exceptionally rare), there is a clear issue.
But why do you come out with this now just because you wanna get out of a contract?
How the hell are the people going to find out whether she was actually raped?
Yep https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/214970/sexual-offending-overview-jan-2013.pdfSee the table on page 7.Only 6% of rape reports end in a conviction. Unless you think 94% of women make them up (of which there is no evidence that false allegations are anything other than exceptionally rare), there is a clear issue.
Swearing under oath to cover this up doesn't help her case though.
That's not to say she's lying, but more evidence is needed before that guy can be taken(rightly so if he did it) to jail.
How the hell are the people going to find out whether she was actually raped?
Original post by Bornblue
No it's not stupid, it's done for all crimes and is academically and widely held as not perfect but the best we have and is pretty good at that.It also finds out why those who felt they had been raped did not come forward. To simply dismiss it as you have done is quite daft. Because i'm sure you've quoted figures from it before relating to domestic abuse.Posted from TSR Mobile
Swearing under oath to cover this up doesn't help her case though.
That's not to say she's lying, but more evidence is needed before that guy can be taken(rightly so if he did it) to jail.
(edited 8 years ago)
Original post by jam277
But why do you come out with this now just because you wanna get out of a contract?
How the hell are the people going to find out whether she was actually raped?
How the hell are the people going to find out whether she was actually raped?
She came out with it in 2011 and then swore under oath that she was lying about it.
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Original post by DiddyDec
She came out with it in 2011 and then swore under oath that she was lying about it.
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Okay...
I believe that really doesn't help her case. It could be the case she was blackmailed but I guess she would have to prove it.
Innocent until proven guilty for her unfortunately. It's better this way than putting innocent people in jail.
Original post by jam277
Okay...
I believe that really doesn't help her case. It could be the case she was blackmailed but I guess she would have to prove it.
Innocent until proven guilty for her unfortunately. It's better this way than putting innocent people in jail.
I believe that really doesn't help her case. It could be the case she was blackmailed but I guess she would have to prove it.
Innocent until proven guilty for her unfortunately. It's better this way than putting innocent people in jail.
She is now being sued for deformation.
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Being accused of lying because a victim has no proof is exactly the reason why rape is allowed to thrive. Rape also happens to men too, so we need to get the idea that forcing yourself onto someone else without their consent is wrong and punishable. It's a humanity thing, not a gender thing.
Original post by lilacwanda28
Being accused of lying because a victim has no proof is exactly the reason why rape is allowed to thrive. Rape also happens to men too, so we need to get the idea that forcing yourself onto someone else without their consent is wrong and punishable. It's a humanity thing, not a gender thing.
She has lied at least once during legal proceedings.
Original post by lilacwanda28
Being accused of lying because a victim has no proof is exactly the reason why rape is allowed to thrive. Rape also happens to men too, so we need to get the idea that forcing yourself onto someone else without their consent is wrong and punishable. It's a humanity thing, not a gender thing.
She has said that she was not raped in a sworn oath back in 2011.
How about that for evidence?
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Original post by Underscore__
The British crime survey doesn't give facts it's gives estimates. It's incredibly unreliable seeing as anyone can submit any answer they like. Most people don't have a complete understanding of what rape is so asking someone if they've been raped is a bit stupid.
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You've never completed the BCS/CSEW have you?
The domestic and sexual violence questions are very clearly defined and worded to avoid the issues you state. http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/guide-method/method-quality/specific/crime-statistics-methodology/questionnaires/csew-2015-16-adult.pdf page 222 onwards if anything the wording is likely to result in under reporting of rape as they only ask for where the respondent "made it clear that you didnot agree" and so instances where vicims froze or felt they weren't vocal enough about not consenting are likely to be omitted.
There's no incentive to lie on any of the questions - especially the IPV/SSA questions which are completed with no interaction with the interviewer.
The most recent results are available here: http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/rel/crime-stats/crime-statistics/focus-on-violent-crime-and-sexual-offences--2013-14/rpt-chapter-4.html#tab-conclusions (next lot are due out this month).
Original post by DiddyDec
This is good to hear and any fools who still wish to believe he is guilty should read this link.
http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/dr-luke-sues-keshas-lawyer-for-defamation-after-gaga-rape-accusations-20141208
A representative for Lady Gaga reiterated to Rolling Stone a previously released statement the singer has made. "This ridiculous, manufactured link between Lady Gaga and the Kesha/Dr. Luke lawsuit is utterly incomprehensible," said the spokesperson. "This simply isn't true and how dare someone take advantage of such a sensitive matter."
''Beginning in October, Geragos has been representing Kesha in a lawsuit against Dr. Luke, in which she alleges that the producer "sexually, physically, verbally and emotionally abused" her over the past decade. The same day, Luke filed a suit against Kesha and her mother claiming they had defamed him by feeding lies to people behind a "Free Kesha" campaign to end the pop star's contract with the producer. It also said that they had attempted to extort him in an effort to get her out of her contract with him. Luke has also filed a preemptive suit against Kesha's mother in the event that a judge won't try her in New York since she is based out of Nashville. The lawsuits are ongoing.''
Also you kesha supporters please click the link below where it states she lied under oath, please feel free to come out of the bushes again with your biased sexist views.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-2802370/kesha-swore-oath-2011-deposition-dr-luke-did-not-sexually-abuse-undercutting-rape-allegations-latest-lawsuit.html
''Kesha swore under oath in 2011 that Lukasz 'Dr. Luke' Goswald did not sexually abuse her.
During the deposition, unsealed Tuesday by a judge, the pop star said the music mogul neither drugged nor raped her.
The sworn testimony contradicts allegations made by Kesha that Dr. Luke 'sexually, physically, verbally and emotionally abused' her over a period of 10 years.
The deposition was given by Kesha in a prior lawsuit with her former managers at DAS Communications.
In it, she denies that Dr. Luke ever gave her coke or a date rape drug, despite alleging in her latest lawsuit that he forced her to consume illegal drugs.
She also claims Dr. Luke gave her 'sober pills' and the following day she woke up naked in his bed 'sore and sick with no memory of how she got there'.
But when asked during the deposition whether she had ever told her mother that she 'woke up in a hotel room in Gottwald's bed' and that she didn't 'recall what happened that night,' Kesha said she didn't remember.
She even stated directly: 'Dr. Luke never made sexual advances to me.''
The amount of evidence going against Kesha is so large that you don't need detective Columbo only the most biased ignorant people would keep supporting her.
(edited 8 years ago)
Original post by PQ
You've never completed the BCS/CSEW have you?
The domestic and sexual violence questions are very clearly defined and worded to avoid the issues you state. http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/guide-method/method-quality/specific/crime-statistics-methodology/questionnaires/csew-2015-16-adult.pdf page 222 onwards if anything the wording is likely to result in under reporting of rape as they only ask for where the respondent "made it clear that you didnot agree" and so instances where vicims froze or felt they weren't vocal enough about not consenting are likely to be omitted.
There's no incentive to lie on any of the questions - especially the IPV/SSA questions which are completed with no interaction with the interviewer.
The most recent results are available here: http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/rel/crime-stats/crime-statistics/focus-on-violent-crime-and-sexual-offences--2013-14/rpt-chapter-4.html#tab-conclusions (next lot are due out this month).
The domestic and sexual violence questions are very clearly defined and worded to avoid the issues you state. http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/guide-method/method-quality/specific/crime-statistics-methodology/questionnaires/csew-2015-16-adult.pdf page 222 onwards if anything the wording is likely to result in under reporting of rape as they only ask for where the respondent "made it clear that you didnot agree" and so instances where vicims froze or felt they weren't vocal enough about not consenting are likely to be omitted.
There's no incentive to lie on any of the questions - especially the IPV/SSA questions which are completed with no interaction with the interviewer.
The most recent results are available here: http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/rel/crime-stats/crime-statistics/focus-on-violent-crime-and-sexual-offences--2013-14/rpt-chapter-4.html#tab-conclusions (next lot are due out this month).
It also says 'or when you were not capable of consent'. The capacity to give valid consent is one of the most problematic areas of the criminal justice system, the courts still don't really have a consistent idea of when someone is capable and when they aren't. That means that this part of the question makes the entire question incredibly subjective.
Also I don't think its that hard to imagine that people who feel that they have been raped would read this question, realise what its about and then ignore the specific wording.
As for the lack of incentive to lie thats a very feeble point. People signed the Oregon Petition using the names of the Spice Girls and Star Wars characters, what could their motivation have been?
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