Cambridge college's bronze cockerel must go, students say
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Original post by TimmonaPortella
There's no colony. It's simply a territorial claim -- one that is only recognised by other States that claim Antarctic territory iirc.
The problem is where you draw the line. The Prime Minister has given basically the correct answer on this imho. If we start considering claims for things from people with about as much connection with the original use or creation of the artefact as we have (i.e. absolutely zero in most cases), suddenly we've given away the Elgin Marbles, the Koh-i-Noor diamond, and gradually everything else, and we have an empty British Museum, which would be of detriment not only to the country but also to the proper care of the artefacts themselves.
The problem is where you draw the line. The Prime Minister has given basically the correct answer on this imho. If we start considering claims for things from people with about as much connection with the original use or creation of the artefact as we have (i.e. absolutely zero in most cases), suddenly we've given away the Elgin Marbles, the Koh-i-Noor diamond, and gradually everything else, and we have an empty British Museum, which would be of detriment not only to the country but also to the proper care of the artefacts themselves.
What were they going to need Antarctic territory for exactly?
I don't exactly disagree with you but..
Aren't there any British artefacts to put in the British museum. Surely it can't just be all plundered things from former colonies can it?
Original post by StrawbAri
What were they going to need Antarctic territory for exactly?
I don't exactly disagree with you but..
Aren't there any British artefacts to put in the British museum. Surely it can't just be all plundered things from former colonies can it?
I don't exactly disagree with you but..
Aren't there any British artefacts to put in the British museum. Surely it can't just be all plundered things from former colonies can it?
Well, a lot of research is conducted there. I've heard it claimed that there's oil there that we don't have the technology to extract yet, but I don't know if there's any truth to that. I guess it's just nice to have extra territory
I'm not really an expert. I think there's a lot of old Anglo-Saxon stuff in there, and presumably some Roman stuff from their occupation, but a significant proportion of it is, erm, sourced from overseas, I think. (I wouldn't use the word 'plundered' without qualification. Where a lot of things would likely have been vandalised and sold for parts, the British Museum maintains them with painstaking effort and puts them on display for the public to see.)
Original post by StrawbAri
What were they going to need Antarctic territory for exactly?
I don't exactly disagree with you but..
Aren't there any British artefacts to put in the British museum. Surely it can't just be all plundered things from former colonies can it?
I don't exactly disagree with you but..
Aren't there any British artefacts to put in the British museum. Surely it can't just be all plundered things from former colonies can it?
It's not plunder, it's getting the loser to pay expenses for the conquest and upkeep for the local garrison, with some hefty interest, naturally, all those grieving widows and all.
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1. See something petty and utterly irrelevant.
2. Get offended by it.
3. Reach for your keyboard and express your outrage.
That's the SJW mindset and this thread is full of it. As much as I want such utterly pointless news stories to go away, they won't until these articles stop being such click bait (hence good sources of advertising revenue) for SJWs looking for something to complain about.
2. Get offended by it.
3. Reach for your keyboard and express your outrage.
That's the SJW mindset and this thread is full of it. As much as I want such utterly pointless news stories to go away, they won't until these articles stop being such click bait (hence good sources of advertising revenue) for SJWs looking for something to complain about.
Original post by Student403
Is it streamed online? I love watching the episodes on Youtube but unfortunately I can't watch it live
Yes, it's on iPlayer.
Original post by Ethereal World
This should be moved to Cambridge thread. Only cantabs would care about sh*t this dull.
Agreed, and I'm currently a student at Jesus :P
Original post by TimmonaPortella
There's no colony. It's simply a territorial claim -- one that is only recognised by other States that claim Antarctic territory iirc.
The problem is where you draw the line. The Prime Minister has given basically the correct answer on this imho. If we start considering claims for things from people with about as much connection with the original use or creation of the artefact as we have (i.e. absolutely zero in most cases), suddenly we've given away the Elgin Marbles, the Koh-i-Noor diamond, and gradually everything else, and we have an empty British Museum, which would be of detriment not only to the country but also to the proper care of the artefacts themselves.
The problem is where you draw the line. The Prime Minister has given basically the correct answer on this imho. If we start considering claims for things from people with about as much connection with the original use or creation of the artefact as we have (i.e. absolutely zero in most cases), suddenly we've given away the Elgin Marbles, the Koh-i-Noor diamond, and gradually everything else, and we have an empty British Museum, which would be of detriment not only to the country but also to the proper care of the artefacts themselves.
I think a lot depends on the original context in which things were 'acquired' and the relationship between modern states and the original state that it was removed from and also the damage caused to original sites. For example, a lot of the contention over the Elgin Marbles is around the issue of Greece not being a state at that time, but being under the Ottomans. The local Ottoman Bey allegedly gave 'permission' for the removal (eg, a large bribe was paid) and the Greeks were in no position to object. That certainly sounds like (at minimum) colonialist exploitation of the worst and most manipulative sort, or at worst, a carefully calculated piece of cultural vandalism on a grand scale taking advantage of the inability of locals to raise objection.
The Marbles were ripped off the face of the Parthenon (often causing damage to it and to some of the Marbles) and transported to Britain.
Modern Greece isn't the same state as it was back then, but either way, it can't be right.
Original post by Smaug123
Agreed, and I'm currently a student at Jesus :P
Which is why it's in the national media this morning?
I don't think trying to keep a low profile is the right way to go with stories like this.
A lot of these students are thick. Just think about it, they have been coached and spoon fed at expensive private schools or posh state schools in leafy suburbs where only a few token poor people are allowed in. They can get through exams and impress interviewers because they have already been told all the answers by their Oxbridge educated teachers and parents.
They probably have very few original thoughts. What they are good at is conforming to what an Oxbridge student is and get let in on that basis because admission staff are not immune to bias and want the same people as themselves.
They are told they are the best in the country by their parents, teachers and lecturers so every thought that goes through their head they think must be pure gold. These places makes hubris an everyday occurrence.
They probably have very few original thoughts. What they are good at is conforming to what an Oxbridge student is and get let in on that basis because admission staff are not immune to bias and want the same people as themselves.
They are told they are the best in the country by their parents, teachers and lecturers so every thought that goes through their head they think must be pure gold. These places makes hubris an everyday occurrence.
Original post by Maker
A lot of these students are thick. Just think about it, they have been coached and spoon fed at expensive private schools or posh state schools in leafy suburbs where only a few token poor people are allowed in. They can get through exams and impress interviewers because they have already been told all the answers by their Oxbridge educated teachers and parents.
They probably have very few original thoughts. What they are good at is conforming to what an Oxbridge student is and get let in on that basis because admission staff are not immune to bias and want the same people as themselves.
They are told they are the best in the country by their parents, teachers and lecturers so every thought that goes through their head they think must be pure gold. These places makes hubris an everyday occurrence.
They probably have very few original thoughts. What they are good at is conforming to what an Oxbridge student is and get let in on that basis because admission staff are not immune to bias and want the same people as themselves.
They are told they are the best in the country by their parents, teachers and lecturers so every thought that goes through their head they think must be pure gold. These places makes hubris an everyday occurrence.
No, they're just knowledgeable enough to realise the background to where the bronze comes from and caring enough to want to set an old wrong right.
Original post by Fullofsurprises
No, they're just knowledgeable enough to realise the background to where the bronze comes from and caring enough to want to set an old wrong right.
Hmmm. I see you have moved on from your failed attempt to bring down Rhodes' statue as Oriel to this latest pointless campaign.
Life is short and one would have thought there would there are a lot more terrible injustices in the world for the "right on" to get worked up about, slavery, oppression, starvation, that kind of thing. But obviously not.
It is just a bronze cockerel for goodness sake. Who cares?
Original post by JezWeCan!
Hmmm. I see you have moved on from your failed attempt to bring down Rhodes' statue as Oriel to this latest pointless campaign.
Life is short and one would have thought there would there are a lot more terrible injustices in the world for the "right on" to get worked up about, slavery, oppression, starvation, that kind of thing. But obviously not.
It is just a bronze cockerel for goodness sake. Who cares?
Life is short and one would have thought there would there are a lot more terrible injustices in the world for the "right on" to get worked up about, slavery, oppression, starvation, that kind of thing. But obviously not.
It is just a bronze cockerel for goodness sake. Who cares?
That kind of thing works both ways - the sort of people who oppose symbolic acts of restitution like this often don't seem to care much about current inequalities. The people who want things like this to be put right are campaigning for it precisely because they do care about the injustices.
If nothing else, these cases expose the callous parts of the Right from under the woodwork.
Original post by Greenlaner
"Empire". 
Don't be mad that their empire building tekkers weren't that good compared to some others. They still annexed places, obtained slaves and then sold slaves to YT. Let's cry for them
Original post by Fullofsurprises
That kind of thing works both ways - the sort of people who oppose symbolic acts of restitution like this often don't seem to care much about current inequalities. The people who want things like this to be put right are campaigning for it precisely because they do care about the injustices.
If nothing else, these cases expose the callous parts of the Right from under the woodwork.
If nothing else, these cases expose the callous parts of the Right from under the woodwork.
If they cared about injustices shouldn't they be, you know, caring about injustices preferably of the modern variety, not tiny things of a century or more ago? When are they going to campaign for most of the exhibits in the natural history museum to be returned, I doubt we paid the natives a fair rate for the fossils coming out of their land and the Rhodes campaign proves loons actually would try that sort of crap. You can claim it's because you care about injustices, but I think people would buy it a bit more when there isn't massive hypocrisy involved and when meaningful perceived injustices are being attacked.
And it isn't just the right that find you lot unhinged
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Original post by Fullofsurprises
Yes, it's on iPlayer.
Do you think it would work if I used a VPN? I love abroad
Original post by Fullofsurprises
That kind of thing works both ways - the sort of people who oppose symbolic acts of restitution like this often don't seem to care much about current inequalities. The people who want things like this to be put right are campaigning for it precisely because they do care about the injustices.
If nothing else, these cases expose the callous parts of the Right from under the woodwork.
If nothing else, these cases expose the callous parts of the Right from under the woodwork.
Campaigns like this have made you risible and absurd I am afraid. Turned you into a parody of yourselves.
Previous generations of "progressives" went off to fight in the Spanish Civil War against Franco and Hitler.
You guys create a synthetic brouhaha about a bronze cock and think you are really making a difference.
I have no idea whether it will succeed of not, I suspect it won't, but supposing it does. What difference will that make to a country in the grip of vicious internecine strife, riddled with corruption, tearing itself apart on tribal and religious lines, with terrible inequalities in wealth and a venal, wicked elite, but grinding poverty and starvation for the majority?
Oh look, we thought the country was in the $hit, but we have our bronze cockerel back! All is well with Nigeria at last! Thank you Jesus, Cambridge, thank you! Thank you FullofSurprises, I thought no-one cared about us, but you really really do!
Original post by JezWeCan!
Campaigns like this have made you risible and absurd I am afraid. Turned you into a parody of yourselves.
Previous generations of "progressives" went off to fight in the Spanish Civil War against Franco and Hitler.
You guys create a synthetic brouhaha about a bronze cock and think you are really making a difference.
I have no idea whether it will succeed of not, I suspect it won't, but supposing it does. What difference will that make to a country in the grip of vicious internecine strife, riddled with corruption, tearing itself apart on tribal and religious lines, with terrible inequalities in wealth and a venal, wicked elite, but grinding poverty and starvation for the majority?
Oh look, we thought the country was in the $hit, but we have our bronze cockerel back! All is well with Nigeria at last! Thank you Jesus, Cambridge, thank you! Thank you FullofSurprises, I thought no-one cared about us, but you really really do!
Previous generations of "progressives" went off to fight in the Spanish Civil War against Franco and Hitler.
You guys create a synthetic brouhaha about a bronze cock and think you are really making a difference.
I have no idea whether it will succeed of not, I suspect it won't, but supposing it does. What difference will that make to a country in the grip of vicious internecine strife, riddled with corruption, tearing itself apart on tribal and religious lines, with terrible inequalities in wealth and a venal, wicked elite, but grinding poverty and starvation for the majority?
Oh look, we thought the country was in the $hit, but we have our bronze cockerel back! All is well with Nigeria at last! Thank you Jesus, Cambridge, thank you! Thank you FullofSurprises, I thought no-one cared about us, but you really really do!
Actually Benin is one of the better countries in W. Africa at the moment, they are still a poor country but they had elections internationally described as free and fair, they are growing and they have a fairly stable internal situation. Maybe read something about the country before you talk about it?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benin#Post-colonial_period
I don't accept your characterisation of the sort of people who campaign on issues like this, for sure, some may be just middle class people messing around without proper involvement, but a lot aren't like that - most people I know who care about this kind of thing try and do a lot about it.
It's easy to sit in the privileged North / West and snipe at fellow citizens who try to address global injustice, when you could be joining them and making a difference.
Original post by Fullofsurprises
Actually Benin is one of the better countries in W. Africa at the moment, they are still a poor country but they had elections internationally described as free and fair, they are growing and they have a fairly stable internal situation. Maybe read something about the country before you talk about it?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benin#Post-colonial_period
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benin#Post-colonial_period
They aren't asking for Benin to get it back, they are asking for the original thieves to get it back, Nigeria.
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Original post by DiddyDec
They aren't asking for Benin to get it back, they are asking for the original thieves to get it back, Nigeria.
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Oh, OK. Well, Nigeria has a lot of issues like everywhere in Africa, but that doesn't neg the basis of the story.
Original post by Fullofsurprises
Oh, OK. Well, Nigeria has a lot of issues like everywhere in Africa, but that doesn't neg the basis of the story.
Well actually it does. It isn't social justice for Benin it is Nigeria getting back something they stole in the first place.
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