Why is being a feminist considered to be so bad?
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Original post by 1 8 13 20 42
This is a gross oversimplification I often see made that fails to take into account the nuance and the connotations/implications that saying you are a feminist has.
It's really not an oversimplification considering I was quite literally using the words of an above post.
What connotations? If you're thinking of women who want the obliteration of men or think all men are evil, you're thinking of misandrists, not feminists. Yes misandrists exist, just as misogynists also exist.
Also, the perception that feminism is merely "free the nipple" and "men suck" is ridiculous. feminism can mention first-world problems, yes, but in no way does it only focus on first-world problems. intersectional feminism covers most, if not all, issues faced by all genders, races and sexualities.
Anti-feminist men are very quick to jump in and say "not ALL men!" when someone talks about some guy raping or abusing a woman. which is fair enough. and yet, men are perfectly happy to generalise ALL feminists with one sweep.
ETA: it's also understandable that first-world women who haven't experienced assault etc do not feel victimised and don't feel the need to fight for equal rights. but personally I find it kind of gross that just because you haven't suffered, you're happy to forget about everyone else suffering, both in your country and in third world countries.
and, men like to respond to feminism with "but men have XYZ problems too!"
no one ever said men don't have problems lmao.
feminism is not "men have perfect lives, women deserve better"
it's "many of the rights that men have, women do not experience in the same way that they should."
I also fail to understand why anyone doesn't think that feminism benefits men too. when men are victims of rape, assault, false accusations etc, it is more often feminists who stand up for them than anti-feminist men.
(edited 8 years ago)
Original post by ZoëC
We do try to fight male oppression too, masculine ideals are one of their biggest threats, and I guess the general concept of male privilege is based on different criteria, such as economic or political freedom. I feel feminism should be seen as an equity movement, but then some would argue that we have already achieved this. Feminism began as far more focussed on the rights of white cis heterosexual women, so I don't see myself represented in those movements so much, but we now aim to have racial 'equality' in feminism too, for example, and this is key as women cannot choose to oppress each other over class, age, sexuality etc. when they wish to not be oppressed for their gender/sex.
I guess my definition of feminism is somewhat egalitarian, it is just insane that a word changes the perception of the movements, which to some degree have common aims.
I guess my definition of feminism is somewhat egalitarian, it is just insane that a word changes the perception of the movements, which to some degree have common aims.
What are masculine ideals?
3rd wave feminism isn't based on equality it is based on victim hood they will go on about the dictionary definition of feminism to defend themselves and then create new definitions for words such as:
Patriarchy
Actual definition: a system of society or government in which men hold the power and women are largely excluded from it.
feminist definition: an unjust social system that enforces gender roles and is oppressive to both men and women.
Original post by slade p
Feminist and vile and despicable.
They prove with their actions that feminism is not about equality but rather a self serving agenda with an anti male mentality and they constantly spew anti male views,accusations and narratives.
Feminists are also extremely unfeminine,unclassy and filthy. They are not proper women.
Feminists make me so angry.
They prove with their actions that feminism is not about equality but rather a self serving agenda with an anti male mentality and they constantly spew anti male views,accusations and narratives.
Feminists are also extremely unfeminine,unclassy and filthy. They are not proper women.
Feminists make me so angry.
I'm sorry you are so butthurt over the prospect of women having the same rights you do.it's also very charming that your idea of a "proper woman" is one who doesn't believe in equal rights and respectful treatment of women
Original post by slade p
Feminist and vile and despicable.
They prove with their actions that feminism is not about equality but rather a self serving agenda with an anti male mentality and they constantly spew anti male views,accusations and narratives.
Feminists are also extremely unfeminine,unclassy and filthy. They are not proper women.
Feminists make me so angry.
They prove with their actions that feminism is not about equality but rather a self serving agenda with an anti male mentality and they constantly spew anti male views,accusations and narratives.
Feminists are also extremely unfeminine,unclassy and filthy. They are not proper women.
Feminists make me so angry.
You talk so much nonsense it's unbelievable. How can you make such generalisations?
Original post by JackEDeakin
There is a rape culture.
I can't tell you the amount of times I've heard the phrase "she deserves to get raped". When people ask what woman was wearing, that is part of a rape culture. The pay gap is real, women literally earn less per hour and are in less executive positions.
I can't tell you the amount of times I've heard the phrase "she deserves to get raped". When people ask what woman was wearing, that is part of a rape culture. The pay gap is real, women literally earn less per hour and are in less executive positions.
I have heard that phrase exactly 0 times.
Where are all these people who come out saying that?
Apparently saying innocent until proven guilty is the same according to feminists I have discussed this with
Original post by thermometer I'm sorry you are so butthurt over the prospect of women having the same rights you do.
it's also very charming that your idea of a "proper woman" is one who doesn't believe in equal rights and respectful treatment of women
I'm sorry you are so butthurt over the prospect of women having the same rights you do.it's also very charming that your idea of a "proper woman" is one who doesn't believe in equal rights and respectful treatment of women
What rights do women not have that men do?
Women have some exclusive benefits in law.
Original post by thermometer I'm sorry you are so butthurt over the prospect of women having the same rights you do.
it's also very charming that your idea of a "proper woman" is one who doesn't believe in equal rights and respectful treatment of women
I'm sorry you are so butthurt over the prospect of women having the same rights you do.it's also very charming that your idea of a "proper woman" is one who doesn't believe in equal rights and respectful treatment of women
Typical feminist reply.
Feminism is not about equal rights. This is a lie that feminists say. Any rational person can see how feminists behave that it's a lie.
Original post by joecphillips
What rights do women not have that men do?
Women have some exclusive benefits in law.
Women have some exclusive benefits in law.
Fighting exclusive benefits in law that women have is PART of feminism.
Women don't have the chance to walk down the street without being harrassed nearly everyday, yes, it happens to Men but Women are bigger targets and are often blamed for being raped/sexually abused. That is sexism, that is literally why we need feminism, amongst other reasons.
Original post by slade p
Typical feminist reply.
Feminism is not about equal rights. This is a lie that feminists say. Any rational person can see how feminists behave that it's a lie.
Feminism is not about equal rights. This is a lie that feminists say. Any rational person can see how feminists behave that it's a lie.
please provide some form of justification for your statement that "feminism is not about equal rights"?
Original post by thermometer
please provide some form of justification for your statement that "feminism is not about equal rights"?
It's literally so ridiculous that people can think feminism is NOT about equal rights. I support gender equality for ALL genders, so I am a feminist.
I hate to break it to you guys who are saying that feminism is not about equal rights, but if you support gender equality, I'm afraid you are a feminist.
Original post by JackEDeakin
Fighting exclusive benefits in law that women have is PART of feminism.
Women don't have the chance to walk down the street without being harrassed nearly everyday, yes, it happens to Men but Women are bigger targets and are often blamed for being raped/sexually abused. That is sexism, that is literally why we need feminism, amongst other reasons.
Women don't have the chance to walk down the street without being harrassed nearly everyday, yes, it happens to Men but Women are bigger targets and are often blamed for being raped/sexually abused. That is sexism, that is literally why we need feminism, amongst other reasons.
When was the last time women put up a big fight over the fact they get more parental leave? They are more focussed on freeing the nipple and attacking free speech.
Original post by joecphillips
What rights do women not have that men do?
Women have some exclusive benefits in law.
Women have some exclusive benefits in law.
Are you ignorant enough to think across the globe,women have the same rights(social,political and economic) as men? Or are you talking specifically about where you live?
Original post by childofthesun
You talk so much nonsense it's unbelievable. How can you make such generalisations?
It's not generalisations, what I say is he mainstream of feminism, not a fringe like some want to fool people into thinking.
Feminists by what they say and advocate proves what I say. Actions speak louder then words.
Original post by thermometer
It's really not an oversimplification considering I was quite literally using the words of an above post.
What connotations? If you're thinking of women who want the obliteration of men or think all men are evil, you're thinking of misandrists, not feminists. Yes misandrists exist, just as misogynists also exist.
Also, the perception that feminism is merely "free the nipple" and "men suck" is ridiculous. feminism can mention first-world problems, yes, but in no way does it only focus on first-world problems. intersectional feminism covers most, if not all, issues faced by all genders, races and sexualities.
Anti-feminist men are very quick to jump in and say "not ALL men!" when someone talks about some guy raping or abusing a woman. which is fair enough. and yet, men are perfectly happy to generalise ALL feminists with one sweep.
What connotations? If you're thinking of women who want the obliteration of men or think all men are evil, you're thinking of misandrists, not feminists. Yes misandrists exist, just as misogynists also exist.
Also, the perception that feminism is merely "free the nipple" and "men suck" is ridiculous. feminism can mention first-world problems, yes, but in no way does it only focus on first-world problems. intersectional feminism covers most, if not all, issues faced by all genders, races and sexualities.
Anti-feminist men are very quick to jump in and say "not ALL men!" when someone talks about some guy raping or abusing a woman. which is fair enough. and yet, men are perfectly happy to generalise ALL feminists with one sweep.
The meaning of words changes all the time, and the fact is that saying you are a feminist implies much more than that you believe men and women should be equal, just as saying you are a communist implies much more than that you believe people should take what they need from society and give what they can to society. There is a great deal of "feminist theory" now; saying you are a feminist implies belief that all females are oppressed by all males across the world, and that this is achieved by an ill-defined "patriarchy"; it implies that you believe in a rape culture, and that you believe we "objectify" women in the West. To some extent it implies a belief in white male "privilege". You may not like that it implies these things, and it certainly does not follow from the dictionary definition, but the fact is that people are going to associate feminism with its most vocal and influential members, who happen to spout all this stuff. Hence it seems rather futile to identify as a feminist if you do not believe in said stuff.
Intersectional feminism is perhaps my least favourite part of the movement. It tells people who aren't white or male that they are inherently disadvantaged by the system, without evidence or even any reasonable attempt at some sort of nebulous justification. The message we should send to everyone is the message that holds the most truth; in the West, at least, we largely have a meritocracy. If you are good enough to succeed at whatever it is you want to succeed in, you will probably succeed, and you will not be prevented from doing so because you aren't white or whatever. Intersectional feminists encourage positive discrimination, which is not only an insult to meritocracy but frankly seems like an insult to those that it benefits as well, suggesting that they need extra assistance because they weren't born with the "best" race or gender...and they accuse everyone else of being the bigots.
I would never generalise all feminists. If someone tells me they are a feminist, the things I have mentioned above jump to mind, but I will reserve judgement on their views until they are made crystal clear. But everyone needs to mentally categorise to some extent, and it's majority rule; well, the majority of influential feminists seem to hold views far beyond the simple dictionary definition, many of which I find distasteful. Furthermore being a man is not really a choice, choosing to give yourself the label feminist, in the knowledge of all those connotations, is, so it is more likely generalisation will be accurate with a feminist, at least where their views are concerned..
because feminists are whiny little brats with a victim complex. read geek feminism - http://geekfeminism.wikia.com/wiki/Privilege. roflmao
Original post by joecphillips
What rights do women not have that men do?
Women have some exclusive benefits in law.
Women have some exclusive benefits in law.
Original post by JackEDeakin
Fighting exclusive benefits in law that women have is PART of feminism.
Women don't have the chance to walk down the street without being harrassed nearly everyday, yes, it happens to Men but Women are bigger targets and are often blamed for being raped/sexually abused. That is sexism, that is literally why we need feminism, amongst other reasons.
Women don't have the chance to walk down the street without being harrassed nearly everyday, yes, it happens to Men but Women are bigger targets and are often blamed for being raped/sexually abused. That is sexism, that is literally why we need feminism, amongst other reasons.
precisely what jack said.
there are privileges that ONLY men have, AND there are privileges that only women have. the argument that women currently have inferior rights does not mean women don't have any rights over men. but it does mean women have more of their rights more commonly violated. feminism is a move to neutralise, within reason, the current unfair differences between men and women's rights. hence the common point that feminism benefits men as well as women.
feminists frequently speak out on the harmful gender roles enforced upon women, but we also talk a LOT about the toxic expectations enforced on men too. because neither should be tolerated.
anti-feminists disguised as "humanists" love to complain about feminists not doing enough for men's rights... and yet, you aren't doing anything either.
Original post by childofthesun
Are you ignorant enough to think across the globe,women have the same rights(social,political and economic) as men? Or are you talking specifically about where you live?
When was the last time they did something about that? Obviously in some countries it is needed.
I am talking about the western world what rights do they have that men don't?
In the western world they have spent more time trying to free the nipple and destroy free speech
Original post by joecphillips
When was the last time women put up a big fight over the fact they get more parental leave? They are more focussed on freeing the nipple and attacking free speech.
How can you be so misogynistic as to suggest that freeing the nipple isn't an important subject. You talk about it and disregard it like it is nothing. You are proving to us WHY we need feminism.
I hear about it all the time, just because you choose not to listen to it or look for it, doesn't mean it isn't there.
Also you talk about only women putting up a fight over the fact they get more parental leave, but it is literally MEN who have imposed this on them because it is MEN who have forced women to reside in stay at home roles in history which is why their parental leave is so much higher, not to mention the fact that when men fight against the unfair parental leave rights, that is an act of feminism also. It is actually sexist towards women that they do get more parental leave because it is suggesting their roles are in the home.
And someone made a good point - you seem to assume that women everywhere have the same rights?
(edited 8 years ago)
Original post by thermometer
precisely what jack said.
there are privileges that ONLY men have, AND there are privileges that only women have. the argument that women currently have inferior rights does not mean women don't have any rights over men. but it does mean women have more of their rights more commonly violated. feminism is a move to neutralise, within reason, the current unfair differences between men and women's rights. hence the common point that feminism benefits men as well as women.
feminists frequently speak out on the harmful gender roles enforced upon women, but we also talk a LOT about the toxic expectations enforced on men too. because neither should be tolerated.
anti-feminists disguised as "humanists" love to complain about feminists not doing enough for men's rights... and yet, you aren't doing anything either.
there are privileges that ONLY men have, AND there are privileges that only women have. the argument that women currently have inferior rights does not mean women don't have any rights over men. but it does mean women have more of their rights more commonly violated. feminism is a move to neutralise, within reason, the current unfair differences between men and women's rights. hence the common point that feminism benefits men as well as women.
feminists frequently speak out on the harmful gender roles enforced upon women, but we also talk a LOT about the toxic expectations enforced on men too. because neither should be tolerated.
anti-feminists disguised as "humanists" love to complain about feminists not doing enough for men's rights... and yet, you aren't doing anything either.
When was the last time feminists talked about how females outnumber males in universities?
When was the last time feminists talked about the courts being more lenient on them?
When was the last time they talked about the preferential treatment they get in family courts?
When was the last time they talked about the lack of funding for male domestic abuse resources?
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