There are too many people on benefits

I consider myself intelligent, and in the process of completing my education, yet i'm still on benefits, so how does that work out??

I cant see how it can be more moral to withhold money needed for the NHS, police etc, society itself is propped up by these sorts of income as a government has no power to make money for itself and thus relies on tax to keep society functioning. If everyone decided to protect their assets in this manner then the structures by which they make their assets would collapse. At a simplistic level nobody would buy anything because there would be no police so people would just steal it. How much goes to those who need it is not a factor in the moral argument, after all by the same logic our taxes pay MP's so why shouldnt we claim what we dont deserve?

Most people dont feel entitled, they feel like they can get away with it. Entitlement tends to be the preserve of those with money.

I dread that world, whilst people should undeniably contribute there has to be concessions for the less able. I know an anemic person and their illness isnt considered good enough to claim however they cannot run their household because they return from work so tired they sleep until they go back the next day. What sort of existence is that? Their entire life is work. I dont disagree we should encourage people contributing however they can but it is important to be mindful of limitations by practicality that go beyond the simple theory of 'people are in a wheelchair they can do sitting down jobs'. Quite rightly too a lot of lower class or less economically well off believe that society does them little favours (as shown somewhat by tax evasion) why should they contribute.

Even ignoring that whilst contributions are important we shouldnt expect people to debase themselves on the altar of greater good.

You do realise there are 2,000,000 unemployed (massaged government figures) and 750,000 jobs (also massaged government figures).

That's the bottom line: not even a Tory chancellor can make maths like that work. People in wheelchairs or who cannot for whatever reason do half of the jobs that are around are obviously at the back of the queue too.

I would also like to see you fill in a form for any of these benefits. It is thought that long-term benefit claimants have more knowledge of the system than lawyers trained specifically in that area. And do you have any idea of how draconian the JSA system is these days? You have to apply for 20 jobs a week when in your average small town you'd be lucky to see that many in a month.

I consider myself intelligent, and in the process of completing my education, yet i'm still on benefits, so how does that work out??

I think it's also useful to note that as most employers expect applicants to have had a previous job and most jobs that don't ask for experience require some form of manual labour that someone who uses a wheelchair might not be able to do (retail work, cafe/restaurant work, cleaning). Then the reduced number of jobs that someone can apply for when there's already loads more people unemployed than vacancies will definitely mean it's harder to get any job. And that's ignoring the illegal but very real discrimination that means a lot of employers won't hire a disabled person.

It's not illegal to discriminate against disabled people in recruitment only once they're employed.

Actually, it is. Doesn't prevent companies from doing it though.

You have such a bleak, and quite frankly limited, perspective.

So you are one of those people who thinks that poverty is the fault of the individual suffering it? Not systematic inequality?

I think poverty is due to systematic inequality, 100% .

But that's the way the world works.

It's survival of the fittest and those who are educated, those who are healthy, those who are able, they will prosper. That's not anyone's fault, that's just how it is. Call it destiny, fate, whatever.

I assume you'd be saying the same if it was your relative? I didn't ask to be born disabled. Nor did I ask for the nhs to completely **** up my care as a child which has left me with a brain injury. I'm "lucky" that's only left me with me with memory issues and chronic sensitivity to light.

I think poverty is due to systematic inequality, 100% .

But that's the way the world works.

It's survival of the fittest and those who are educated, those who are healthy, those who are able, they will prosper. That's not anyone's fault, that's just how it is. Call it destiny, fate, whatever.

It's not illegal to discriminate against disabled people in recruitment only once they're employed.

My partner has written letters from employers stating that the only reason for not employing him was because he's a wheelchair user. The Disability Rights Commission (this was before the EA2010 merging of equality bodies was implemented) said that there was nothing illegal about what they had said or done.

It's not illegal if a person's disability means they cannot do the job. But you can't discriminate if their disability wouldn't affect their job or you could put in adjustments to allow them to work.

I have had relatives die from diseases etc, yes it's sad. If it's a relative, friend, myself..the point I'm trying to make is that is the way the world works. It's not fair, it's not great...but it's life. It's not my fault some are born more able than others, speak to God about that.

So you accept that not everyone has the same opportunities but you want to treat the people who happen to not have the same privileges as you like ****. We don't have to accept oppression. If EVERYONE worked together we could create a more equal society. Yes, people will still be disabled. Yes, people will still be suited to different jobs. But together we can make a difference. But people like you don't want to lose your privilege.

At first I thought you didn't understand that a lot of the things that help people achieve are entirely random and not due to that person's effort and you were just ignorant. But now I realise you do know that not everyone has the same chances and people don't choose their oppression but you think that's how it should be. And that makes you EVIL.

Who was it that first espoused trickle down theory?

I don't know what religion you believe in. But I'm not sure many of them think that you should just not give a **** about people less fortunate than you unless you know them.

I don't believe in a god. But I know that the Christian god I was raised to belief in cannot be omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient and benevolent. There is no way that kind of god would allow the world to have some much horror. Yes, some religious people see suffering as a test. But why would this god who can prevent all the suffering and is supposed to be kind 'test' so unequally?

Yeah, I was wondering when you were going to realise that I was aware that this process is random. Tbh I was getting a little tired of people telling me "it's not my fault I'm like this, I do this and I try to do that" .. I'm fully aware it's not your fault.

I don't treat anyone like ****, I just don't particularly take kindly to those who complain about the poor card they are dealt. We could have all got a better hand in life, I could be a size 6, living in Beverly Hills, but this is reality. I have been dealt a card, and so have you, that's not my fault, that's not your fault, that's just what has happened.

I'm simply logical in my thought process. Unfortunately, logic and emotion don't go well together. I'm here to look after myself, not you or anyone else. If I have privilege, no I don't want to share it. We all have a small time on this earth, I want the experience to be the best it possibly can be, for myself.

It's great that you want the whole world to be equal, but it's not the case. Accept it, or you're going to live the rest of your life bitter and upset.

I do care about people, but it's more "on surface" , it's not a deep emotional investment. Also, don't take for granted that if I know you, I care about you.

By the way, this isn't a debate about God. I simply said in my previous post to ask God, to prove a point that you can't be blaming anyone for your situation.