Why is being a feminist considered to be so bad?
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Original post by DiddyDec
If rape has been "normalised" Why is Mr Johnson in court?
I never even mentioned feminism.
I want your definition. That is why I asked for it.
Posted from TSR Mobile
I never even mentioned feminism.
I want your definition. That is why I asked for it.
Posted from TSR Mobile
when we say rape is being normalised we don't mean it has become accepted or legalised.......
rather it refers to rape apologists/people who try to pick out aspects of the situation that makes it seem less severe eg "oh the girl was wearing revealing clothes" or "the victim shouldn't have been out alone at night". I've heard this type of argument countless times and it's getting old. in my opinion it's an awful way to think of it, because rape is not the victim's fault. Mr Johnson is in court because he did something against the law, simple as that.
I obviously don't think he should be getting sentenced to death or something, but breaking the law needs a trial, doesn't it?
I know this is just one song out of a million other innocent ones, but I'm sure you've heard Blurred Lines and others like it.
rape culture is also slut shaming and blaming girls for wearing "daring" clothes instead of teaching boys not to rape. when a man posts a shirtless picture, you don't usually see people shaming him or using it as an explanation if he gets assaulted. it's not like girls are walking about naked, but even showing a bit more skin than the average old-timer gets you a bucketload of accusations.
rape culture is supporting athletes and successful businessmen/artists who raped someone, and calling their victims "career-ruiners".
it is when victims of rape, no matter what their gender, are not taken seriously when they report their ordeal, e.g. in colleges.
rape jokes, and people who think they're acceptable/excusable.
thinking that it's not rape if the victim is intoxicated.
the fact that women feel less safe outside at night than men do.
refusing to acknowledge how serious rape is and how harmful it can be, especially mentally, for survivors.
(edited 8 years ago)
Original post by thermometer
I've just explained why advocating for womens rights is the same as advocating for equal rights.
Yes, exactly, the dictionary defines it as womens rights, not mens rights.
that is because womens rights need to be worked on more in order to achieve equal rights..
I don't understand your confusion.
Right now womens rights are generally below mens rights.
Advocating to lift womens rights UP will get them on the SAME LEVEL as mens rights.
hence, EQUAL rights.
also, identifying areas where certain mens rights are inferior to womens rights, and improving those too.
hence, EQUAL rights.
as for your latter point, rape culture is not just a men-raping-women thing. you seem to have forgotten that men get raped too. the concept of rape culture includes them.
you go on and on about how feminism doesn't help men's rights, and yet you are the ones who dismiss male victims of rape and abuse.
so what exactly do you want for men's rights, if not that..?
Yes, exactly, the dictionary defines it as womens rights, not mens rights.
that is because womens rights need to be worked on more in order to achieve equal rights..
I don't understand your confusion.
Right now womens rights are generally below mens rights.
Advocating to lift womens rights UP will get them on the SAME LEVEL as mens rights.
hence, EQUAL rights.
also, identifying areas where certain mens rights are inferior to womens rights, and improving those too.
hence, EQUAL rights.
as for your latter point, rape culture is not just a men-raping-women thing. you seem to have forgotten that men get raped too. the concept of rape culture includes them.
you go on and on about how feminism doesn't help men's rights, and yet you are the ones who dismiss male victims of rape and abuse.
so what exactly do you want for men's rights, if not that..?
You just do not get it. Read the definition and understand before making irrelevant points.
RAPE CULTURE IS ABOUT MEN RAPING WOMEN. Are you deliberately being obtuse or awkward on purpose?
Original post by thermometer
I've just explained why advocating for womens rights is the same as advocating for equal rights.
Yes, exactly, the dictionary defines it as womens rights, not mens rights.
that is because womens rights need to be worked on more in order to achieve equal rights..
I don't understand your confusion.
Right now womens rights are generally below mens rights.
Advocating to lift womens rights UP will get them on the SAME LEVEL as mens rights.
hence, EQUAL rights.
also, identifying areas where certain mens rights are inferior to womens rights, and improving those too.
hence, EQUAL rights.
as for your latter point, rape culture is not just a men-raping-women thing. you seem to have forgotten that men get raped too. the concept of rape culture includes them.
you go on and on about how feminism doesn't help men's rights, and yet you are the ones who dismiss male victims of rape and abuse.
so what exactly do you want for men's rights, if not that..?
Yes, exactly, the dictionary defines it as womens rights, not mens rights.
that is because womens rights need to be worked on more in order to achieve equal rights..
I don't understand your confusion.
Right now womens rights are generally below mens rights.
Advocating to lift womens rights UP will get them on the SAME LEVEL as mens rights.
hence, EQUAL rights.
also, identifying areas where certain mens rights are inferior to womens rights, and improving those too.
hence, EQUAL rights.
as for your latter point, rape culture is not just a men-raping-women thing. you seem to have forgotten that men get raped too. the concept of rape culture includes them.
you go on and on about how feminism doesn't help men's rights, and yet you are the ones who dismiss male victims of rape and abuse.
so what exactly do you want for men's rights, if not that..?
What rights do women not have that men do in the uk?
Original post by TheOpinion
You just do not get it. Read the definition and understand before making irrelevant points.
RAPE CULTURE IS ABOUT MEN RAPING WOMEN. Are you deliberately being obtuse or awkward on purpose?
RAPE CULTURE IS ABOUT MEN RAPING WOMEN. Are you deliberately being obtuse or awkward on purpose?
did you read my post or do you want me to draw a diagram for you?
I've read the definition multiple times thank you.
rape culture is a mindset that attempts to mitigate the seriousness of rape. believe it or not, men get raped too. hence rape culture applies to/affects anyone. I don't know why on earth you would think that rape culture is about female victims only. take a look at yourself before calling me obtuse please, thank you.
it's seriously ironic. you're complaining that you don't think feminism helps men's rights, whilst simultaneously denying that men get raped. I think that's all I need to hear from you..
Original post by thermometer
did you read my post or do you want me to draw a diagram for you?
I've read the definition multiple times thank you.
rape culture is a mindset that attempts to mitigate the seriousness of rape. believe it or not, men get raped too. hence rape culture applies to/affects anyone. I don't know why on earth you would think that rape culture is about female victims only. take a look at yourself before calling me obtuse please, thank you.
it's seriously ironic. you're complaining that you don't think feminism helps men's rights, whilst simultaneously denying that men get raped. I think that's all I need to hear from you..
I've read the definition multiple times thank you.
rape culture is a mindset that attempts to mitigate the seriousness of rape. believe it or not, men get raped too. hence rape culture applies to/affects anyone. I don't know why on earth you would think that rape culture is about female victims only. take a look at yourself before calling me obtuse please, thank you.
it's seriously ironic. you're complaining that you don't think feminism helps men's rights, whilst simultaneously denying that men get raped. I think that's all I need to hear from you..
When did I ever deny men got raped. You are literally too narrow minded to waste my time with.
Original post by thermometer
when we say rape is being normalised we don't mean it has become accepted or legalised....... rather it refers to rape apologists/people who try to pick out aspects of the situation that makes it seem less severe eg "oh the girl was wearing revealing clothes" or "the victim shouldn't have been out alone at night". I've heard this type of argument countless times and it's getting old. in my opinion it's an awful way to think of it, because rape is not the victim's fault.
Mr Johnson is in court because he did something against the law, simple as that.
I obviously don't think he should be getting sentenced to death or something, but breaking the law needs a trial, doesn't it?
I know this is just one song out of a million other innocent ones, but I'm sure you've heard Blurred Lines and others like it.
rape culture is also slut shaming and blaming girls for wearing "daring" clothes instead of teaching boys not to rape. when a man posts a shirtless picture, you don't usually see people shaming him or using it as an explanation if he gets assaulted. it's not like girls are walking about naked, but even showing a bit more skin than the average old-timer gets you a bucketload of accusations.
rape culture is supporting athletes and successful businessmen/artists who raped someone, and calling their victims "career-ruiners".
it is when victims of rape, no matter what their gender, are not taken seriously when they report their ordeal, e.g. in colleges.
rape jokes, and people who think they're acceptable/excusable.
thinking that it's not rape if the victim is intoxicated.
the fact that women feel less safe outside at night than men do.
refusing to acknowledge how serious rape is and how harmful it can be, especially mentally, for survivors.
rather it refers to rape apologists/people who try to pick out aspects of the situation that makes it seem less severe eg "oh the girl was wearing revealing clothes" or "the victim shouldn't have been out alone at night". I've heard this type of argument countless times and it's getting old. in my opinion it's an awful way to think of it, because rape is not the victim's fault. Mr Johnson is in court because he did something against the law, simple as that.
I obviously don't think he should be getting sentenced to death or something, but breaking the law needs a trial, doesn't it?
I know this is just one song out of a million other innocent ones, but I'm sure you've heard Blurred Lines and others like it.
rape culture is also slut shaming and blaming girls for wearing "daring" clothes instead of teaching boys not to rape. when a man posts a shirtless picture, you don't usually see people shaming him or using it as an explanation if he gets assaulted. it's not like girls are walking about naked, but even showing a bit more skin than the average old-timer gets you a bucketload of accusations.
rape culture is supporting athletes and successful businessmen/artists who raped someone, and calling their victims "career-ruiners".
it is when victims of rape, no matter what their gender, are not taken seriously when they report their ordeal, e.g. in colleges.
rape jokes, and people who think they're acceptable/excusable.
thinking that it's not rape if the victim is intoxicated.
the fact that women feel less safe outside at night than men do.
refusing to acknowledge how serious rape is and how harmful it can be, especially mentally, for survivors.
You know what really helps to reduce rape, not only "teaching not to rape", but teaching girls how to be safe.
Blurred Lines, great song. Used to hear at my SU bar all the time. Songs don't make people rape other people just as violent video games don't make people kill each other.
Men just get assaulted that is just something that men have to deal with, in fact men are twice as likely to be a victim of violent crime than women, also twice as likely to be murdered. But women fear going out at night more because of the amount of media attention that surrounds rape even though they are more likely to be raped by someone they know than an opportunist stranger prowling the streets. That is media induced paranoia.
How is "slut shaming" even comparable to rape?
There is no topic which cannot be joked about and that is nature of humor.
To say we have rape culture is laughable. Rape is one of the most heinous crimes a man can commit often put above murder, even being accused of rape can ruin someone's life even if the claims are completely unfounded or they are proven innocent. One can lose their entire livelihood over a simple accusation. To say it has been "normalised" or accepted is completely false.
Original post by thermometer
I've just explained why advocating for womens rights is the same as advocating for equal rights.
Yes, exactly, the dictionary defines it as womens rights, not mens rights.
that is because womens rights need to be worked on more in order to achieve equal rights..
I don't understand your confusion.
Right now womens rights are generally below mens rights.
Advocating to lift womens rights UP will get them on the SAME LEVEL as mens rights.
hence, EQUAL rights.
also, identifying areas where certain mens rights are inferior to womens rights, and improving those too.
hence, EQUAL rights.
Yes, exactly, the dictionary defines it as womens rights, not mens rights.
that is because womens rights need to be worked on more in order to achieve equal rights..
I don't understand your confusion.
Right now womens rights are generally below mens rights.
Advocating to lift womens rights UP will get them on the SAME LEVEL as mens rights.
hence, EQUAL rights.
also, identifying areas where certain mens rights are inferior to womens rights, and improving those too.
hence, EQUAL rights.
Let me explain this to you.
Equal rights would be raising the standards where men and women are missing out.
Feminism only raises the standards where women are missing out. So it may be equal for women but that does not mean it is equal to men. In order to have total equality we must raise the standards for everyone.
Because the internet is full of ***** who use terms like Social-Justice-Warrior, Lefties, and Feminazies. There are stupid people within the ranks of feminists, but the ideology of feminism is in and of itself pretty understandable and important. If you think feminists are arguing a case that's not true, demonstrate that instead of spreading hate and ********. The internet is filled with some of the most stupid, abhorrent brainless creatures. In other words, politics, just like sports, is a profession. If you play football with an amateur, you shouldn't expect the perfect game to be played. Same thing, if you argue with an amateur politically, don't expect to have the best arguments. That's what the internet is, a den of amateurs who know nothing about anything and only use their keyboards to spout nonsense.
Original post by thermometer
if you read the last part of my statement, yours would not have been necessary. I've said 20 times now that feminism is not just about women's rights. in fact, feminists are recognising men's issues and male abuse victims more than "egalitarians" and anti-feminists are.
Whenever i see feminists bring up male issues they always seem to basically say it is mens fault for being men we are going to make them be more like women and that it was because of the mythical patriarchy (if a patriachy exosted it is a pretty bad one to allow all mens issues now)
Original post by thermometer
if you read the last part of my statement, yours would not have been necessary. I've said 20 times now that feminism is not just about women's rights. in fact, feminists are recognising men's issues and male abuse victims more than "egalitarians" and anti-feminists are.
Feminism literally means the advocacy for women's rights.
Source?
Original post by thermometer
"oh the girl was wearing revealing clothes" or "the victim shouldn't have been out alone at night". I've heard this type of argument countless times and it's getting old. in my opinion it's an awful way to think of it, because rape is not the victim's fault.
This response to this point has been made before a lot, but I'll reuse it. If someone didn't lock their door at night and then got robbed, would you say we live in a theft culture because many people would probably say the person should have locked their door? There will always be opportunistic, selfish and callous people who rape, steal, assault, etc.. It is not a bad thing to tell people how best to avoid this, although I would agree that saying it just after the event to the victim in question would be uncalled for and cruel of course.
Original post by thermometer
rape culture is also slut shaming and blaming girls for wearing "daring" clothes instead of teaching boys not to rape.
"teaching boys not to rape". It is very difficult to grow up in a Western society and not get the message that rape is wrong...if someone is messed up enough to plan out a rape then such teaching will do nothing. As for other cases, I would posit that it is usually rather obvious if consent is being given or not (generally through body language, which is obviously a far older and hence, I would say, more natural methods of communication in this regard), and if it is not obvious, I'd imagine most normal guys would ask, and wouldn't require special teaching to know that if they're not sure whether the person they're with wants to go through with something they should look for affirmative consent..
Original post by thermometer
rape jokes, and people who think they're acceptable/excusable.
thinking that it's not rape if the victim is intoxicated.
the fact that women feel less safe outside at night than men do.
refusing to acknowledge how serious rape is and how harmful it can be, especially mentally, for survivors.
rape jokes, and people who think they're acceptable/excusable.
thinking that it's not rape if the victim is intoxicated.
the fact that women feel less safe outside at night than men do.
refusing to acknowledge how serious rape is and how harmful it can be, especially mentally, for survivors.
Jokes about almost anything are excusable. There are countless holocaust jokes, murder jokes, paedophilia jokes. Do you think that this normalises these things? Humour often looks at the dark side of human nature; it has always been this way.
If the victim is almost completely incapacitated then obviously it is rape. But if the victim is just fairly drunk, then they are still responsible for their actions. We don't relieve drunk people of their responsibility in anything else, so why is sex special?
They may feel less safe, but women feeling less safe doesn't make them less safe. Men are more likely to be randomly assaulted.
Original post by joecphillips
Whenever i see feminists bring up male issues they always seem to basically say it is mens fault for being men we are going to make them be more like women and that it was because of the mythical patriarchy (if a patriachy exosted it is a pretty bad one to allow all mens issues now)
I have never seen a feminist say anything along the lines of "it is mens fault for being men"; anyone knows thats not true because you literally do not choose what sex you are born as..
sounds like a lot of misandrists you are drawing from.
feminists actively encourage recognition of male victims because they are so often shamed/dismissed. I'm pretty sure we had this whole discussion yesterday.
Original post by 1 8 13 20 42
"teaching boys not to rape". It is very difficult to grow up in a Western society and not get the message that rape is wrong...if someone is messed up enough to plan out a rape then such teaching will do nothing. As for other cases, I would posit that it is usually rather obvious if consent is being given or not (generally through body language, which is obviously a far older and hence, I would say, more natural methods of communication in this regard), and if it is not obvious, I'd imagine most normal guys would ask, and wouldn't require special teaching to know that if they're not sure whether the person they're with wants to go through with something they should look for affirmative consent..
"teaching boys not to rape". It is very difficult to grow up in a Western society and not get the message that rape is wrong...if someone is messed up enough to plan out a rape then such teaching will do nothing. As for other cases, I would posit that it is usually rather obvious if consent is being given or not (generally through body language, which is obviously a far older and hence, I would say, more natural methods of communication in this regard), and if it is not obvious, I'd imagine most normal guys would ask, and wouldn't require special teaching to know that if they're not sure whether the person they're with wants to go through with something they should look for affirmative consent..
I completely agree that rape is going to happen whether or not we "teach" against it, but when I said that, I meant that we shouldn't be fishing for faults/reasons in the victim instead of the rapist (where there is evidence that the rapist is guilty, of course). pretty sure a woman has the right to go out drinking without having her dignity taken away from her.
in other words, it is better to emphasise the severity of rape and take it for what it is - a serious crime - instead of trying to diminish its severity by looking for excuses.
Original post by cookiemonster15
I wasn't picking out your errors, I was just highlighting that the statement you said did not make sense as you were contradicting myself. And there was no need for you to use the terms 'people like you' you bought that on yourself - what else was I supposed to think you were meaning by using that phrase?
Also, I would say actually quite a lot of feminists support equality everywhere, it is only the minority that have blown it up to look like something it isn't.
Also, I would say actually quite a lot of feminists support equality everywhere, it is only the minority that have blown it up to look like something it isn't.
All you did was 'highlight' my statement because you had nothing to say about my original comment.
And you're last statement shows how weak your argument is. NOTHING is being done to help equality everywhere. I highly doubt that you do anything either.
Original post by under8ed
All you did was 'highlight' my statement because you had nothing to say about my original comment.
And you're last statement shows how weak your argument is. NOTHING is being done to help equality everywhere. I highly doubt that you do anything either.
And you're last statement shows how weak your argument is. NOTHING is being done to help equality everywhere. I highly doubt that you do anything either.
I did have something to say, I just wrote it down in the next post...
Original post by cookiemonster15
I did have something to say, I just wrote it down in the next post...
Well what do have to say about my point that I just made? Stop making irrelevant points and replies or dont reply to me because I dont have time for this nonsense
Original post by thermometer
aw cheers. you tried to tell me that rape culture is about men raping women only. so what about all the other instances of rape? why have you just excluded them?
Wow, are you literally being stupid on purpose?
The whole idea of a rap culture is that men are naturally rapists. It is not about men being raped. Just look it up.
Original post by under8ed
Well what do have to say about my point that I just made? Stop making irrelevant points and replies or dont reply to me because I dont have time for this nonsense
So you say feminism has done nothing to help equality?
http://www.mmu.ac.uk/equality-and-diversity/doc/gender-equality-timeline.pdf
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_women%27s_rights_(other_than_voting)
I literally had to get a timeline because feminism has achieved so much, not just in the western world, everywhere.
And why do you think I want to find the time to keep answering your questions when you keep repeating the same things...
You are entitled to your own opinion, I get that. But don't bash mine just because it differs to yours.
Original post by cookiemonster15
So you say feminism has done nothing to help equality?
http://www.mmu.ac.uk/equality-and-diversity/doc/gender-equality-timeline.pdf
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_women%27s_rights_(other_than_voting)
I literally had to get a timeline because feminism has achieved so much, not just in the western world, everywhere.
And why do you think I want to find the time to keep answering your questions when you keep repeating the same things...
You are entitled to your own opinion, I get that. But don't bash mine just because it differs to yours.
http://www.mmu.ac.uk/equality-and-diversity/doc/gender-equality-timeline.pdf
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_women%27s_rights_(other_than_voting)
I literally had to get a timeline because feminism has achieved so much, not just in the western world, everywhere.
And why do you think I want to find the time to keep answering your questions when you keep repeating the same things...
You are entitled to your own opinion, I get that. But don't bash mine just because it differs to yours.
I'm not 'bashing' your opinion. The way you attempted to counter my points wasn't sensible and to me it seemed you wanted to avoid my points.
The timelines you show depicting the work of people fighting for equal rights aren't done by the average feminist. They're done by the lawmakers, both men and women, who have worked hard. As I said, i am fully in support of them but they get paid for their jobs. at least 90% of people who identify themselves as feminists dont proactively fight against gender inequality and most just ride the backs of the very few people who do (and these ppl aren't necessarily feminists).
Original post by joecphillips
What rights do women not have that men do in the uk?
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