Pro choice or pro life?
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Original post by Polysexual Nymph
The logical conclusion of your arguments is simple - no liability will follow if a mother kills an infant, whatever her motives are.
Indeed.
Original post by Polysexual Nymph
Why? This is not about whether rights exist, this is about whether an act can ever be treated as occupying the same normative ground as an omission - and the onus lies on you to prove this.
If the outcome is the same, I don't see how an act is not equivalent to an omission. A person who could save a child from drowning but just watches is just as responsible for having that child's preference violated as someone who actively drowns a child.
Preference-satisfaction is the only criteria by which we can judge whether an act is right or wrong, for the simple reason that there is no logical justification for putting one's own preferences above those of others. It follows that if we are to aim to maximise our own preference-satisfaction - which it is impossible not to do - we should maximise the preference-satisfaction of all other sentient beings. Failing to do so would be to put our own preferences above those of others.
Original post by Polysexual Nymph
With all due respect, I don't think some of your arguments merit a response. Throwing an assertion like "I don't believe in rights" doesn't win you an argument.
I wasn't trying to win an argument, I was just putting forward my point of view. I mentioned rights because you said that I was approaching the issue in terms of rights, and I was just clarifying that I don't believe that anyone should have inviolable rights.
Original post by Wolfegirl98
Would like to get some opinions in this. I know that our bodies should definitely not be some controversial issue but would like to know why people are so against people doing what they think is best for themselves?
i think it's best for myself to drink a bottle of vodka for breakfast every morning. Abortion is not to do with yourself, it's depriving another human being of the right to live. It's terminating a cycle of life. You never know, that person could be the next charlie parker or nelson mandela. We decided that killing is wrong,
killing = denying someone the right to live,
abortion = denying someone the right to live
abortion = killing
We don't kill a terrorist who's killed tens of innocent people, we shouldnt kill an innocent child.
Although I'm not yet sure whether abortion should remain legal or should be banned, I need to read a bit more and find my position on that. Obviously abortion should be allowed if the woman's life is in danger.
Original post by TrotskyiteRebel
It's terminating a cycle of life. You never know, that person could be the next charlie parker or nelson mandela.
As explained earlier in this thread, this only applies if you believe in destiny and predetermination. The jury's still out on that (and likely to remain that way for a long time), so let's not pretend that this is a serious premises on which to base your argument.
Original post by Hydeman
As explained earlier in this thread, this only applies if you believe in destiny and predetermination. The jury's still out on that (and likely to remain that way for a long time), so let's not pretend that this is a serious premises on which to base your argument.
jurys still on what?
Original post by TrotskyiteRebel
jurys still on what?
The truth of the claim that events are predetermined. There's no consensus on this.
Original post by TrotskyiteRebel
i think it's best for myself to drink a bottle of vodka for breakfast every morning. Abortion is not to do with yourself, it's depriving another human being of the right to live. It's terminating a cycle of life. You never know, that person could be the next charlie parker or nelson mandela. We decided that killing is wrong,
killing = denying someone the right to live,
abortion = denying someone the right to live
abortion = killing
We don't kill a terrorist who's killed tens of innocent people, we shouldnt kill an innocent child.
Although I'm not yet sure whether abortion should remain legal or should be banned, I need to read a bit more and find my position on that. Obviously abortion should be allowed if the woman's life is in danger.
killing = denying someone the right to live,
abortion = denying someone the right to live
abortion = killing
We don't kill a terrorist who's killed tens of innocent people, we shouldnt kill an innocent child.
Although I'm not yet sure whether abortion should remain legal or should be banned, I need to read a bit more and find my position on that. Obviously abortion should be allowed if the woman's life is in danger.
Answer this:
Say someone was dying for a liver disease and the only way they could be saved was through a liver transplant. How would you feel if you had no say and were forced to donate part of your liver? Would you go through with it, without objection?
Original post by thestars
pro choice because no one has the right to tell a woman what she can or can't do with her body.
If you're aborting a female baby you are forcing a woman to have something she wouldn't want done to her done.
Original post by Gwilym101
Answer this:
Say someone was dying for a liver disease and the only way they could be saved was through a liver transplant. How would you feel if you had no say and were forced to donate part of your liver? Would you go through with it, without objection?
Say someone was dying for a liver disease and the only way they could be saved was through a liver transplant. How would you feel if you had no say and were forced to donate part of your liver? Would you go through with it, without objection?
Yea liver has this amazing capability to repair itself if part of it has been taken. If there's a clash between my selfishness and carwardliness and someone's life so be it, it's morally acceptable to use force.
Original post by Hydeman
The truth of the claim that events are predetermined. There's no consensus on this.
No you got the wrong idea, I don't think everything's predetermined but what i mean is that people deserve to live and help make life better for us all. Although there's also IQ, that child could have had the IQ of Albert Einstein. That aside, some people are happy to adopt children from mothers who are not in a position to raise a child. So why not at least facilitate adoption laws so that women have that option too?
That apart someone's circumstances can change like 5 yrs on and that child will only be 4-5 years old. True he's been through difficulties but he has plenty of time to live there on.
Original post by TrotskyiteRebel
Yea liver has this amazing capability to repair itself if part of it has been taken. If there's a clash between my selfishness and carwardliness and someone's life so be it, it's morally acceptable to use force.
Are you a living donor then?
I'm voting pro-life, although my opinion isn't formulated on this.
Original post by Gwilym101
Are you a living donor then?
I am on the NHS donor list yea
Pro-choice, I don't understand how you could be "pro-life"
Original post by TrotskyiteRebel
No you got the wrong idea, I don't think everything's predetermined but what i mean is that people deserve to live and help make life better for us all. Although there's also IQ, that child could have had the IQ of Albert Einstein.
You're not quite getting the point. I explained this to another person in an earlier post: Albert Einstein, or any other influential scientist, is the product of many, many choices and circumstances other than that of his mother to carry her pregnancy to term.
Unless you believe in predetermination, it cannot be said that fetus X could be this or could be that with a reasonable degree of certainty -- you just don't know, because the choices and circumstances of his life are determined in real-time as far as we can tell. Fetus X could also be involved in a terrible accident at the age of four and never regain consciousness. That's a circumstance that you couldn't foresee. As such, it's unreasonable to base a pro-life argument on the off-chance that potential humans could do potentially great things for humanity, especially when you're trying to balance this with the rights of the conscious, self-aware woman who is carrying the potential human.
(edited 8 years ago)
Original post by saladays
I'm pro-choice. However, I don't think abortion should be used as contraception - as in, you shouldn't have unprotected sex and just think "no worries, I'll abort it later".
I doubt that many people do. Abortions aren't exactly comfortable.
Original post by Hydeman
I doubt that many people do. Abortions aren't exactly comfortable.
Well, no, I was exaggerating - I just mean people who knowingly have unprotected sex and think abortions are always an option later.
Original post by Justmoll28
pro choice, i think its ridiculous how much stick some women get for wanting to make a decision for their own body/life.
It's not about their life, it's about the child's life.
Original post by TrotskyiteRebel
I am on the NHS donor list yea
That's not what I asked. I asked are you a living donor, as in have you donated your kidneys, liver, bone marrow already?
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