What are your thoughts on disability discrimination?
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Original post by BrianMcEgg
Shouldn't even exist but sometimes we have to accept that if that person is a massive danger to both themselves and others, we can't give them whatever they wanted
le sigh. You don't get it do you? It's a need and not a want. And most of the time it has nothing to do with danger.
Ok, I will give you an example:
I am partially sighted. I was placed on the work programme and had to constantly beg for them to put any handouts on coloured paper (which they have) and in large print. According to the Equalities Act, that is a reasonable adjustment. They then whinged because I refused (because I couldn't read it) to take part. Bizarrely, I used to attend a music club where most of the time (I do believe not everyone was aware of my issues, fine) they managed this with no issues at all.
Original post by Tiger Rag
le sigh. You don't get it do you? It's a need and not a want. And most of the time it has nothing to do with danger.
Ok, I will give you an example:
I am partially sighted. I was placed on the work programme and had to constantly beg for them to put any handouts on coloured paper (which they have) and in large print. According to the Equalities Act, that is a reasonable adjustment. They then whinged because I refused (because I couldn't read it) to take part. Bizarrely, I used to attend a music club where most of the time (I do believe not everyone was aware of my issues, fine) they managed this with no issues at all.
Ok, I will give you an example:
I am partially sighted. I was placed on the work programme and had to constantly beg for them to put any handouts on coloured paper (which they have) and in large print. According to the Equalities Act, that is a reasonable adjustment. They then whinged because I refused (because I couldn't read it) to take part. Bizarrely, I used to attend a music club where most of the time (I do believe not everyone was aware of my issues, fine) they managed this with no issues at all.
Hence I said "sometimes" and a lot of the time there's a want when they are a potential hazard to others. A need has to be fulfilled, of course
Example- if a bar involved walking up the stairs(there are tables downstairs) and there is nothing else so the only way you can get down is via the stairs. Say there's a dude on a wheelchair that wants to sit upstairs. Because they can only get out through the stairs it is a) dangerous to even attempt it b) if there was a fire we'd have to carry them downstairs, this would be very time consuming and it makes the risk of death much higher for others. That kind of example is when I can see WHY they think they're a potential danger to others
(edited 8 years ago)
Depends on what type of discrimination we're thinking about. The first thing that comes to mind is discrimination relating jobs (I don't know why).
If a disable person isn't fit for the job and probably do poorly on it anyway, I don't consider it discrimination by an employee refusing to give that employee a in a particular position.
Are we just talking about disabled people in general like physical and mental disabled people together?
Depends on the disability, I guess. No way trying to say disability discrimination is alright with me. Sure, disabled people should be treated as equals such as respect like an equal.
If a disable person isn't fit for the job and probably do poorly on it anyway, I don't consider it discrimination by an employee refusing to give that employee a in a particular position.
Are we just talking about disabled people in general like physical and mental disabled people together?
Depends on the disability, I guess. No way trying to say disability discrimination is alright with me. Sure, disabled people should be treated as equals such as respect like an equal.
(edited 8 years ago)
Discriminating against people with disabilities is totally justified. That is, in fact, what discrimination is for. Separating the wheat from the chaff, the sheep from the goats. Businesses and individuals ought to have the right to discriminate against people for any and all reasons they see fit, and it is not the business of government to interfere with this
Original post by Macy1998
Depends on what type of discrimination we're thinking about. The first thing that comes to mind is discrimination relating jobs (I don't know why).
If a disable person isn't fit for the job and probably do poorly on it anyway, I don't consider it discrimination by an employee refusing to give that employee a in a particular position.
If a disable person isn't fit for the job and probably do poorly on it anyway, I don't consider it discrimination by an employee refusing to give that employee a in a particular position.
This is right. Basically, if you can justify it, which is usually a health and safety issue, you're not discriminating against someone. I've had people try to justify their cases by telling me I don't have the diagnoses I say I have. I've got them in writing. I've not just magicked them up out of thin air. Someone did then say there's no law saying they had to support me. I'm well aware of the laws in regards to disabled people and what other peoples obligations are.
If someone can't do the work, even with reasonable adjustments, (there's a fund to help with those costs) you're not discriminating against them because you've justified why you're not giving them the job.
Original post by Sequin Rugby
Discriminating against people with disabilities is totally justified. That is, in fact, what discrimination is for. Separating the wheat from the chaff, the sheep from the goats. Businesses and individuals ought to have the right to discriminate against people for any and all reasons they see fit, and it is not the business of government to interfere with this
You live a sad life
Original post by Sequin Rugby
Discriminating against people with disabilities is totally justified. That is, in fact, what discrimination is for. Separating the wheat from the chaff, the sheep from the goats. Businesses and individuals ought to have the right to discriminate against people for any and all reasons they see fit, and it is not the business of government to interfere with this
Can you please look up the Equalities Act? And no, discrimination (apart from in a few cases) isn't justified. I've been denied education because of my disabilities. Is that seriously justified?
Original post by Sequin Rugby
Discriminating against people with disabilities is totally justified. That is, in fact, what discrimination is for. Separating the wheat from the chaff, the sheep from the goats. Businesses and individuals ought to have the right to discriminate against people for any and all reasons they see fit, and it is not the business of government to interfere with this
You are a disgusting sick minded individual. Discriminating against people with disabilities can never be justified, When you saying "That is, in fact, what discrimination is for" it would never exist in the first place if humans did not create these barriers. How would you feel if you were disabled and got rejected from a job only due to that? Everybody deserves equality no matter what their race, sex, gender, disability etc is.
If the business sees the person as incompetent to handle the job even with relevant support put into place than it is ok, but not ok to purely reject someone because they are disabled. The government have every right to stop such uncivillised behaviour.
This is a very abstract question and conversation for the strength of sentiment that you express, OP. Can you give some examples from your actual experience where you have been so grossly discriminated against or seen such discrimination take place? Is this a question of principle or is it an actual problem for you? From what I've seen the system in the UK works well in providing for disabled people.
Original post by Yellow 03
This is a very abstract question and conversation for the strength of sentiment that you express, OP. Can you give some examples from your actual experience where you have been so grossly discriminated against or seen such discrimination take place? Is this a question of principle or is it an actual problem for you? From what I've seen the system in the UK works well in providing for disabled people.
I have Autism and ADHD and have faced a lot of discrimination. I have numerous difficulties related to my disabilities and these sick minded individuals just don't seem to understand it. I wish these people would imagine themselves in my shoes and see how it feels to be treated like this.
Disabled people are always going to face discrimination no matter what laws Government put into practice.
The answer is to create spaces where disabled people can be themselves and not put up with all the rubbish from prejudice people.
Now before you start getting all moody I am not talking about putting disabled people in homes or ghettos. What I am suggesting is there should be disability zones created though out all towns and cities which enable disabled people rather than work against them. There should be free social housing and subsidized business units available near to these zones.
You've heard it many times. Wheel chair users campaign about towns and cities not being accessible and people with Autism struggle to get to work because of loud sounds, bright lights and socially discriminating attitudes from other people.
As someone who has high functioning Autism I am at the point in my life where I basically avoid cities and towns like the plague. I hate the places. However to be able to work in these areas something has to change.
We need disability friendly zones to enable disabled people instead!
The answer is to create spaces where disabled people can be themselves and not put up with all the rubbish from prejudice people.
Now before you start getting all moody I am not talking about putting disabled people in homes or ghettos. What I am suggesting is there should be disability zones created though out all towns and cities which enable disabled people rather than work against them. There should be free social housing and subsidized business units available near to these zones.
You've heard it many times. Wheel chair users campaign about towns and cities not being accessible and people with Autism struggle to get to work because of loud sounds, bright lights and socially discriminating attitudes from other people.
As someone who has high functioning Autism I am at the point in my life where I basically avoid cities and towns like the plague. I hate the places. However to be able to work in these areas something has to change.
We need disability friendly zones to enable disabled people instead!
Original post by illegaltobepoor
Disabled people are always going to face discrimination no matter what laws Government put into practice.
The answer is to create spaces where disabled people can be themselves and not put up with all the rubbish from prejudice people.
Now before you start getting all moody I am not talking about putting disabled people in homes or ghettos. What I am suggesting is there should be disability zones created though out all towns and cities which enable disabled people rather than work against them. There should be free social housing and subsidized business units available near to these zones.
You've heard it many times. Wheel chair users campaign about towns and cities not being accessible and people with Autism struggle to get to work because of loud sounds, bright lights and socially discriminating attitudes from other people.
As someone who has high functioning Autism I am at the point in my life where I basically avoid cities and towns like the plague. I hate the places. However to be able to work in these areas something has to change.
We need disability friendly zones to enable disabled people instead!
The answer is to create spaces where disabled people can be themselves and not put up with all the rubbish from prejudice people.
Now before you start getting all moody I am not talking about putting disabled people in homes or ghettos. What I am suggesting is there should be disability zones created though out all towns and cities which enable disabled people rather than work against them. There should be free social housing and subsidized business units available near to these zones.
You've heard it many times. Wheel chair users campaign about towns and cities not being accessible and people with Autism struggle to get to work because of loud sounds, bright lights and socially discriminating attitudes from other people.
As someone who has high functioning Autism I am at the point in my life where I basically avoid cities and towns like the plague. I hate the places. However to be able to work in these areas something has to change.
We need disability friendly zones to enable disabled people instead!
What should disabled people live in fear due to these prejudice people? When you claim "Disabled people are always going to face discrimination no matter what laws Government put into practice." that is utter rubbish because if people are educated more and taught to respect this will never happen. I am a high functioning Autistic and also have ADHD and don't want to hide in fear in a so-called "disability zone" because of such narrow-minded people.
With wheelchair users, it's a whole different story because their disability is mobility which is physical and they would really struggle to cope if something is not put into place. People with Autism (not all people) including myself can move around like a normal person and most people won't even realize I have some sort of disability. I face more discrimination from people who know me than from strangers in "towns and cities".
When you claim there should be "free social housing and subsidized business units available near to these zones" I highly disagree because in workplaces there should be suitable adjustments made for disabled people and the equality act 2010 supports this. In regards to free social housing, there are no needs because there is plenty of social groups in places if people which Autism feel the need to go to one and also supervised housing units for people who need help with living.
Don't live in fear go out with your head high because you are no different just because you have a disability of some sort. I personally as I said I can go out without any problems anywhere because no one can even spot I am a Autistic unless I tell them I am. An Autistic person can not avoid bright light, loud sounds etc when in public they will always be there but the person should have coping strategies to get around these.
(edited 8 years ago)
Original post by Yellow 03
T From what I've seen the system in the UK works well in providing for disabled people.
It doesn't:
- I've been denied education because the college decided they didn't have to support me. They went as far to call Audiology, ENT, my GP and Psychiatrist liars.
- I've been denied support from social services because they don't understand my needs and it didn't matter how many times I pointed out what they needed to do, (it's basic things like give me more than 30 minutes notice) my needs were ignored time and time again. They wondered why my respose was to just walk out. It was either that or have a meltdown and go completely non verbal
- I've been denied support on the work programme because:
- "I didn't think it was relevant for me to mention that"
- "it can't be that bad if you've just been diagnosed"
And most of the time, it's simple things like giving me handouts in large print, which isn't that hard to do. I used to be a member of a music group. Sometimes, someone would turn up with a song that I couldn't read. The only option was for the man next to me to whisper the chords in my ear. (he'd have to do that anyway, because I'd sometimes get lost)
Original post by Tinka99
I find it utterly disgusting and don't get what possible fun someone could get by treating a less abled person this way.
I agree; the majority of disabled people are only physically challenged, so are perfectly capable of peforming most of the tasks that non-disabled people can perform.
Even if they were mentally handicapped, it's still abhorrent to discriminate against someone for something they can't change or control!
Original post by Sequin Rugby
Discriminating against people with disabilities is totally justified. That is, in fact, what discrimination is for. Separating the wheat from the chaff, the sheep from the goats. Businesses and individuals ought to have the right to discriminate against people for any and all reasons they see fit, and it is not the business of government to interfere with this
Fortunately most of humanity has advanced beyond these ridiculous social darwinist beliefs.
Original post by Tinka99
What should disabled people live in fear due to these prejudice people? When you claim "Disabled people are always going to face discrimination no matter what laws Government put into practice." that is utter rubbish because if people are educated more and taught to respect this will never happen. I am a high functioning Autistic and also have ADHD and don't want to hide in fear in a so-called "disability zone" because of such narrow-minded people.
With wheelchair users, it's a whole different story because their disability is mobility which is physical and they would really struggle to cope if something is not put into place. People with Autism (not all people) including myself can move around like a normal person and most people won't even realize I have some sort of disability. I face more discrimination from people who know me than from strangers in "towns and cities".
When you claim there should be "free social housing and subsidized business units available near to these zones" I highly disagree because in workplaces there should be suitable adjustments made for disabled people and the equality act 2010 supports this. In regards to free social housing, there are no needs because there is plenty of social groups in places if people which Autism feel the need to go to one and also supervised housing units for people who need help with living.
Don't live in fear go out with your head high because you are no different just because you have a disability of some sort. I personally as I said I can go out without any problems anywhere because no one can even spot I am a Autistic unless I tell them I am. An Autistic person can not avoid bright light, loud sounds etc when in public they will always be there but the person should have coping strategies to get around these.
With wheelchair users, it's a whole different story because their disability is mobility which is physical and they would really struggle to cope if something is not put into place. People with Autism (not all people) including myself can move around like a normal person and most people won't even realize I have some sort of disability. I face more discrimination from people who know me than from strangers in "towns and cities".
When you claim there should be "free social housing and subsidized business units available near to these zones" I highly disagree because in workplaces there should be suitable adjustments made for disabled people and the equality act 2010 supports this. In regards to free social housing, there are no needs because there is plenty of social groups in places if people which Autism feel the need to go to one and also supervised housing units for people who need help with living.
Don't live in fear go out with your head high because you are no different just because you have a disability of some sort. I personally as I said I can go out without any problems anywhere because no one can even spot I am a Autistic unless I tell them I am. An Autistic person can not avoid bright light, loud sounds etc when in public they will always be there but the person should have coping strategies to get around these.
People where taught to respect the rights of people with different skin colors, religion and sexuality for the past 20 years but discrimination still happens so you would be wrong there.
No wants to hide in fear due to prejudice but you need to be a realist, grow a thicker skin and realize there is always going to be those who don't want to adjust their ways to incorporate you as a person.
What I find puzzling is you say the following:
" I am a high functioning Autistic and also have ADHD and don't want to hide in fear in a so-called "disability zone".
And then you say.
"An Autistic person can not avoid bright light, loud sounds etc when in public they will always be there"
Then how about this:
"in workplaces there should be suitable adjustments made for disabled people".
And then you say:
"the person should have coping strategies".
There is a lot of contradiction here. Perhaps you where struggling to get your words the right way round. I think I should dismiss this because I suffer from similar communication problems.
It doesn't matter what laws the Government brings in to try and create progress from the base of affirmative action. Businesses will simply restructure and avoid the equality act 2010 by legal loop holes.
I actually find all this legislation a hindrance to finding employment and often give employers the information they need to employ me while at the same time avoiding their responsibilities to make adjustments for my employment.
Its like the min-wage. It takes the lower rungs off the job ladder for less able people.
You've made a lot of valid points which I do support but I am afraid the rest of the world isn't making adaptations for disabled people. They see us as useless eaters, expendable containers etc etc.
If disabled people are to get ahead we need to start enabling ourselves though mutual collaboration and build communities which we own that enable us to then go onto do bigger and better things.
This means we need to literally own the land and buildings and nothing should be owned by Government because if it is you can bet that Government will liquidate public assets in times of austerity. And they'll hit the disabled first as they always do.
We live in a Capitalist economy. The whole structure of the economy is set against us. If we are to bare fruit and increase our production as a social class we need to first build the infrastructure that will allow us to do it.
Government laws won't work and public infrastructure has been destroyed with a simple pen stroke. Remploy is the best example. This is why we need to build our own communities, our own factories and our own "DISABILITY FRIENDLY ZONES".
(edited 8 years ago)
Original post by Tiger Rag
Can you please look up the Equalities Act? And no, discrimination (apart from in a few cases) isn't justified. I've been denied education because of my disabilities. Is that seriously justified?
I know the Equalities act exists. It is wrong. I was not giving legal advice, but rather expressing a moral opinion.
Original post by Tinka99
You do yourself little credit when you resort to ad-hominem.
Tinka99
How would you feel if you were disabled and got rejected from a job only due to that?
I would be disappointed. However I would respect the decision of the employer. It is his business, and thus his decision. If my disability would prevent me from doing the job properly and thus mean employing me was poor value for money, then that is certainly justified. In the case of mere prejudice, where I would be capable of doing the job but the employer just has a personal dislike of men with disabilities, then that is of course abhorrent, but in my view the government ought to have no right to tell a private employer who he must or must not hire.
Tinka99
Everybody deserves equality no matter what their race, sex, gender, disability etc is.
That is not true. If someone is disabled, they are not equal, by definition. If someone has a severe intellectual disability, they are not equal with respect to intelligence. That is simply a tautology. It follows then that they are not as entitled as I to a career that depends on any level of intellect.
Original post by Sequin Rugby
I know the Equalities act exists. It is wrong. I was not giving legal advice, but rather expressing a moral opinion.
So, it's right in your opinion for me to be denied education and other basic everyday things you take for granted? yeah, I'm sure you'd be saying the same if you were disabled.
Original post by Tiger Rag
So, it's right in your opinion for me to be denied education and other basic everyday things you take for granted? yeah, I'm sure you'd be saying the same if you were disabled.
Of course not. If you are disabled then that is every reason why your education is more important. My comment was referring to private businesses, not taxpayer-funded non-selective schools which I assume you are referring to. You really ought to provide some context. Which everyday things are you denied and what is the nature of your disability?
(edited 8 years ago)
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