The biggest problem with UK leaving the EU

There won't be tourist visas. There weren't in 1972 and there won't be now. However visas will be needed for other things; students, workers, retirement residents, and it is not self-evident they will be granted.

For example, it is not obvious that UK students etc will be allowed to work abroad in low paid positions or that Spain and Portugal will be as welcoming to retirees in poor health.

Well, I don't know about that. I don't really expect Spain to kick out a few hundred thousand expats.

The question is their long term access to healthcare, welfare and etc and how that is affected since they would be non-EU immigrants.

These are answers that I don't think anyone can really give an answer to till Brexit happens.

They were dishonest but to our European partners. When did British government policy stop being to join the Euro when we met the 5 economic tests and met the convergence criteria? I do not recall ever hearing the announcement. It just drifted into the miasma.

They were dishonest but to our European partners. When did British government policy stop being to join the Euro when we met the 5 economic tests and met the convergence criteria? I do not recall ever hearing the announcement. It just drifted into the miasma.

It says a lot about the ludicrous looking glass world that is the European Union that they had to pretend in the first place. Why not be upfront and honest?

Because that is not to be "communataire", not to be a "good European". There is this pervasive cognitive dissonance, this absurd and mendacious pretence that a "European"spirit and consciousness has destroyed national feelings. Ended war forever.

That is why this immigration crisis is so shocking. Reality has rudely broken into the la la land. A million immigrants already in Europe with another million coming this year and the next because Europe's political class are impotent and clueless.

The EU's leadership still keeps up the pretence as each nation nakedly acts in its narrow national interests, desperate not to take their fair share of the wretched and miserable to feed and house.
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incorrect, it was only since uks opting in of 1990 Schengen Convention allowing implementation of the 90 day visa free visit, and by passing normal border control convnesions. And that was at a time with much less border sensitivities thant 2016.

im talking with my 60 year old neighbour who recalls simply going over to calais on a ferry was a pain in the backside - its much easier and much more popular now

When I went to France in 1977 I didn't have a passport at all, let alone a visa. I travelled on a British Excursion Document. Belgium and the Netherlands also allowed passport free short trips from the UK

Most countries in western Europe never required a visa for British tourists and most western European countries would allow entry on something called a British Visitors' Passport which you could buy at and carry away from a post-office including little sub-post-offices. The vast majority of British holidaymakers travelled on the British Excursion Document (France only), passport free (Belgium and Holland only) or British Visitors' Passport (about 20 European countries plus Canada) until 1996 (to none of which could visas be added).

http://hansard.millbanksystems.com/written_answers/1994/dec/20/passports

It says a lot about the ludicrous looking glass world that is the European Union that they had to pretend in the first place. Why not be upfront and honest?

Because that is not to be "communataire", not to be a "good European". There is this pervasive cognitive dissonance, this absurd and mendacious pretence that a "European"spirit and consciousness has destroyed national feelings. Ended war forever.

That is why this immigration crisis is so shocking. Reality has rudely broken into the la la land. A million immigrants already in Europe with another million coming this year and the next because Europe's political class are impotent and clueless.

The EU's leadership still keeps up the pretence as each nation nakedly acts in its narrow national interests, desperate not to take their fair share of the wretched and miserable to feed and house.

Make it another country's problem but say you are "good Europeans " while you do it! Pretend you might join an absurd single currency when you know you never will because it would be an economic disaster. But you can't say that because the core Euro countries can't accept that the truth be spoken.

That is European Union politics.

what relevance is 1977 ie what makes you think leaving the eu will reset circumstances back 40 years. thats absolute nonesense-no one will let you travel with the same level of freedom as 40 years ago - and even then it wasnt as straightforward as you make it out to be. the fact is when we became part of the EU , travel within it by uk citizens sky rocketed for that very reason -far more than ever before pre-union. Hollande is already taking in veiled threats about controls at eurostar terminals if uk leaves .
i dont agree with scare tactics of idiots like david cameron - nor do i agree with brainless claims that nothing will change and everything will be rosey after such a significant upheaval of eu exit.

the reality is that everything will change - and there will be corrections to take place - some we can guess about, others we have no way of guessing.

what does that mean

Just aside for the moment the shock to the economy, the threat to UK based jobs, the new restrictions to trade with our biggest trading partner -

what do you think about the biggest drawback of all - No more cheap, quick holidays over to europe - visas needed for eurostar., ibiza, kavos, prague amsterdam .

Yea we won't be able to go on holiday in Europe because they don't like English money, they will kick out all the people in Spain to crash their housing economy too


Posted from TSR Mobile

have you ended up on this forum by accident? you sound a bit simple, excuse me for saying

Er, yeah. You might want to work on that a little bit.

So you have interviewed the heads of states of 27 countries and have deduced that some of them; Spain, the Czech Republic, amongst others are likely to introduce visa requirements because of the hassle and mess caused by British bachelor parties? No; of course you haven't. So shut your pie hole and keep your infantile speculations to yourself.

Idiot? LOL! I've probably got more university degrees than you have A levels my brave little friend. I've almost certainly more letters after my name than you have in your name. I'm also much better read, worldly wise, and have a much higher IQ than you do.

(And I'm in business myself. Real business. Your experience on a paper round doesn't count)

Now run along. Don't you have some Geography homework to finish?

That is incredibly rude and very patronising.

Posted from TSR Mobile

I really didn't think anyone was dumb enough to take the comment seriously.Posted from TSR Mobile

the migrant crisis is not an issue bourne out of the union - it is based on thefact that the southern outlier members nations cannot protect the external borders of the eu by themselves. the point was sometime ago suggested that there should be EU funded border patrols by land and sea - this is the only way to stem the flow from north africa and middle east where they are coming from. by UK leaving we will have no say on that , nor veto on possible additional new members ie turkey.

the solution is not to leave the eu nor stay in and make no changes. it is to addres the migrant issue directly as part of the process of reform in the eu( which includes also tackling at source in turkey and libya btw) and record all those that come in to eu not simply let them wander free. and also practice more stringent checks on our borders. the reality is this has been going on for a year but so far just a few thousand have come to the uk
but the phobia of immgiration is not the be all and end to make a decision that triggers a vast array of other economic , social and polticial upheaveals by cutting ourself off.