Is it rape if you don't want it to be?

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She made excuses as to why she didn't want to do it. Therefore implying she wasn't interested in having sex at the time. Which is why he further convinced her to. idk it's too gray of an area for me to think it was.

1. 'Made excuses'? No-one ever has to give a reason why they don't want to have sex. And any reason from not being on birth control to feeling ill to just not feeling it is acceptable. NEVER describe anyone's reason for not wanting sex as an 'excuse'.

2. 'Convinced her'? Sounds like coercion and pressure. Consent is enthusiastic and freely given. If you need to 'convince' someone to have sex with you, they're not consenting. Consent is 'yes, I really want to do that' not 'fine then, I know you're just gonna keep asking until I say yes'.

I don't see any grey area. One person says no. The other person pressures them into it. Any relationship between the people involved; any sex before or after is irrelevant to the discussion. It does not sound like consent was given.

Reply 21

Joep95

Original post by SmallTownGirl

That is where s1(1)(c) could apply "A does not reasonably believe that B consents" and this is why I would say previous behaviour is relevant.

Reply 22

Jebedee

Original post by SmallTownGirl

2. 'Convinced her'? Sounds like coercion and pressure. Consent is enthusiastic and freely given. If you need to 'convince' someone to have sex with you, they're not consenting. Consent is 'yes, I really want to do that' not 'fine then, I know you're just gonna keep asking until I say yes'.

Are women so feeble-minded in your eyes that they can't even be allowed to handle the responsibility of being able to answer for themselves without having to be second-guessed or mindread?

Reply 23

Jenx301

Original post by nrb17

Curious if anyone knows legally if two people are hooking up. They aren't dating. And they end dating other people. But during the time they hook up they hadconsensual encounters before and after. One of the time they are drunk at a party and didn't take her bcp and doesn't want to do it. But doesn't neccesarily say no. Like she made excuses but he kind of persisted. He convinced her to let him just do stuff other than sex. And at first she said stop but during she didn't and they both ended up climaxing but she never actually gave permission to have intercourse. But later they hooked up even after that a few times. Would this be legally rape or no? Even if she rather not see it that way. Also they're both 17.

She said stop and he didn't. That's rape. Climax is irrelevant.

Original post by samina_ay

Rape is unconsented sex, so if you feel like you didn't give another man/female permission to touch you sexually - then its rape. But your situation is a mess. Why is the girl drunk when shes only 17? Hmm. Don't do it if you can't handle it.

Don't get drunk if you can't handle being raped? lol what

Reply 24

nrb17

Original post by joecphillips

When I say relationship I don't mean dating.
You said "they hook up they had consensual encounters before and after." So this would suggest probably not but it would also depend on how long before and after this occurs.

well yeah the whole time they were "together' was 6 weeks. So nothing was long. She ended up dating a different guy like 3 weeks later.

Reply 25

Fenneko

Original post by TheonlyMrsHolmes

Also it's such a gross thing to just persist when someone doesn't exactly want to have sex with you.

It's actually pretty hot. Not saying I would engage in it, of course.
There's a reason why it's a common sexual fantasy among both men and women, though.

Reply 26

stochasticking

Sounds like rape to me.

Reply 27

nrb17

Original post by dean01234

Yeah I re-read the OP and you did say that she didn't explicitly say no. I think if she was dead set on it, she probably could make a case for it. But it is a complex situation, definitely a gray area. For me depends on her actions in coming around to the idea of having sex.

Yeah she kind of just gave in after awhile I guess that's why to me the climaxing matters as it seemed she changed her mind obviously.

Reply 28

999tigger

Original post by nrb17

Yeah she kind of just gave in after awhile I guess that's why to me the climaxing matters as it seemed she changed her mind obviously.

If at the time you were pentrating her she said no, then she isnt consenting and it is rape. It's irrelevant if she changes her mind later on. The climaxing is irrelevant. Go and look it up. You are treading very dangerous ground. No means NO.

(edited 8 years ago)

Reply 29

scrotgrot

Technically sexual assault happened at the moment where she said stop and he did whatever it was anyway. Even if she was into it 30 seconds later. If the act in that moment was penetrative it was rape rather than sexual assault.

Reply 30

scrotgrot

Original post by nrb17

Yeah she kind of just gave in after awhile I guess that's why to me the climaxing matters as it seemed she changed her mind obviously.

Orgasm is irrelevant, although you are correct that at the time of her orgasm you were not committing rape.

Your most troubling statement is that you seem to think previous encounters might constitute carte blanche to have sex again. It betrays a proprietorial view of women's bodies.

Reply 31

nrb17

Original post by SmallTownGirl

I'm confused and I know this is off topic but why does your username say you're a girl but your gender sign says you're a guy?

Uh well that's what it was but ok.

I know pressure is one thing but it's not a crime to pressure someone I don't believe. And plus I'd rather see it as not rape. Which is why my title says what it says.

Reply 32

nrb17

Original post by 999tigger

I'm not a guy.
I don't know to me the end result matters since there was no consent saying no or yes for that matter. Someone saying stop. Is for the moment or at least can be perceived that way.

Reply 33

scrotgrot

Original post by SmallTownGirl

This is far too much.

1. An excuse is what you give when you would like to do something but cannot, or at least want to give that impression. Therefore to the literal-minded person an excuse would actually constitute evidence that she might want to have sex if the circumstances could be made correct.

2. It would appear that the "convincing" consisted mainly in suggesting non-procreative sexual acts. It is not up to you to decide a priori that this was unacceptably coercive, coercion in all things being a matter of degree. THis is doubly so because there is nothing to suggest he had a superior negotiating position from which to coerce her.

Assuming that any negotiation on having sex must be coercive, presumably by invoking some nonsensical "patriarchy" narrative, quickly becomes absurd. Otherwise literally anything a man did, such as brag about his car, pay for a taxi to his place, invite the woman in, whisper seductive words in her ear, could be defined as coercion, as I'm sure some feminists want.

(edited 8 years ago)

Reply 34

scrotgrot

Original post by nrb17

I'm not a guy.
I don't know to me the end result matters since there was no consent saying no or yes for that matter. Someone saying stop. Is for the moment or at least can be perceived that way.

Then you cannot rape in English law (not even if you used a strap-on) and your charge would be sexual assault.

Reply 35

nrb17

Original post by scrotgrot

what if she rather not see it that way? Then I mean wouldn't it be defined by what she felt?

Reply 36

Elise213

Original post by nrb17

oops my bad I forgot that part they both were drunk. my bad soory

just because you're drunk doesn't mean all your senses have left your body. technically it is rape. if there is no consent or if it isn't a yes then you're in trouble... as it should rightfully be.

Reply 37

scrotgrot

Original post by nrb17

what if she rather not see it that way? Then I mean wouldn't it be defined by what she felt?

Absolutely not, you cannot define what is and isn't rape based on your feelings days later. In the moment there was a sexual assault because she said no and you continued.

Her feelings about it will govern whether she, if it came to it, wanted to report the assault and/or bring charges. The present discussion assumes that the matter has been brought before a court, who decide whether an offence was committed, not whether she would be vindicated if you were punished.

However I'm sure her feelings would be presented as circumstantial evidence in the case for the defence.

Reply 38

nrb17

Original post by scrotgrot

Uh no I was just giving information about the background of this situation that's all.

Reply 39

TheonlyMrsHolmes

Original post by Joel 96

It's actually pretty hot. Not saying I would engage in it, of course.
There's a reason why it's a common sexual fantasy among both men and women, though.