Is social mobility on the decline because education is being dumbed down?
Is social mobility on the decline because education is being dumbed down?
Discuss.
Discuss.
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To discuss this, we need to know how education is being dumbed down. What do you mean by dumbing down?
Original post by rogersuniv
To discuss this, we need to know how education is being dumbed down. What do you mean by dumbing down?
1. Sending more people to university
2. Easier to achieve entry to university
3. Easier to gain a first etc.
Original post by Bill_Gates
1. Sending more people to university
2. Easier to achieve entry to university
3. Easier to gain a first etc.
2. Easier to achieve entry to university
3. Easier to gain a first etc.
It's not that it's being dumbed down, it's the lack of the alternative that means people who shouldn't be going to university are going to university.
If anything exams are getting harder, ask any student who's had to revise past papers, they get easier the further back you go. Sort out a decent alternative to university and you sort out social mobility
(edited 8 years ago)
Original post by Bill_Gates
1. Sending more people to university
2. Easier to achieve entry to university
3. Easier to gain a first etc.
2. Easier to achieve entry to university
3. Easier to gain a first etc.
> fairly recent £9000/year uni feeds not mentioned
Original post by queen-bee
Maybe it's easier to gain a first in certain degree titles but surely not STEM?
more firsts are being handed out on all courses like.
Original post by Bill_Gates
more firsts are being handed out on all courses like.
This is the issue when more firsts ' are being handed out '
Isn't it a good thing that students are getting more firsts? Surely that means they're studying harder to achieve their respected grades. If all of a sudden the number of first achieved in the country was at its lowest in recorded history then we'd also be complaining and we'd be saying something stupid like " students are not working as hard as they used to be. "
Now because more students are getting firsts " exams have gone too easy ".
Do you see the point here? There's always something to complain about whichever perspective you look at it from.
Think about this, maybe more students are getting firsts because tuition fees in the UK have risen immensely and are stupendously expensive so students know they have to get as much out of their degree as possible to make it worth the expense. Therefore studying as hard as possible.
Universities have no incentive to ' dumb down ' their courses and the fact that there are more top class students applying to university courses makes the competition even more fierce.
Unless we're talking about a university which no one bothers to look at such as the universities at the bottom of the pile then entry requirements will never go down or courses will not be ' dumbed down ', they'll always get harder and harder. Also, exams become more tough too like another user posted above.
Original post by Bill_Gates
more firsts are being handed out on all courses like.
Aye,I ended up getting a first but I put it down to hard work
With the exception of people in the old boys network, social mobility is actually really good right now.
Original post by RomanKing
This is the issue when more firsts ' are being handed out '
Isn't it a good thing that students are getting more firsts? Surely that means they're studying harder to achieve their respected grades. If all of a sudden the number of first achieved in the country was at its lowest in recorded history then we'd also be complaining and we'd be saying something stupid like " students are not working as hard as they used to be. "
Now because more students are getting firsts " exams have gone too easy ".
Do you see the point here? There's always something to complain about whichever perspective you look at it from.
Think about this, maybe more students are getting firsts because tuition fees in the UK have risen immensely and are stupendously expensive so students know they have to get as much out of their degree as possible to make it worth the expense. Therefore studying as hard as possible.
Universities have no incentive to ' dumb down ' their courses and the fact that there are more top class students applying to university courses makes the competition even more fierce.
Unless we're talking about a university which no one bothers to look at such as the universities at the bottom of the pile then entry requirements will never go down or courses will not be ' dumbed down ', they'll always get harder and harder. Also, exams become more tough too like another user posted above.
Isn't it a good thing that students are getting more firsts? Surely that means they're studying harder to achieve their respected grades. If all of a sudden the number of first achieved in the country was at its lowest in recorded history then we'd also be complaining and we'd be saying something stupid like " students are not working as hard as they used to be. "
Now because more students are getting firsts " exams have gone too easy ".
Do you see the point here? There's always something to complain about whichever perspective you look at it from.
Think about this, maybe more students are getting firsts because tuition fees in the UK have risen immensely and are stupendously expensive so students know they have to get as much out of their degree as possible to make it worth the expense. Therefore studying as hard as possible.
Universities have no incentive to ' dumb down ' their courses and the fact that there are more top class students applying to university courses makes the competition even more fierce.
Unless we're talking about a university which no one bothers to look at such as the universities at the bottom of the pile then entry requirements will never go down or courses will not be ' dumbed down ', they'll always get harder and harder. Also, exams become more tough too like another user posted above.
They do. Statistics are openly available how many 1sts are given, how many 2:1s and how many people drop out. It's widely available and some smart students pick courses are particular universities on this basis. Nothing worse than a 3rd or 2:2 on your CV better off at a weaker institution with a first.
So back to my point! is social mobility on the decline because...........
Original post by queen-bee
Aye,I ended up getting a first but I put it down to hard work
i put it down to your amazing looks.
Original post by Bill_Gates
They do. Statistics are openly available how many 1sts are given, how many 2:1s and how many people drop out. It's widely available and some smart students pick courses are particular universities on this basis. Nothing worse than a 3rd or 2:2 on your CV better off at a weaker institution with a first.
So back to my point! is social mobility on the decline because...........
So back to my point! is social mobility on the decline because...........
No! It's on the incline !
Original post by Bill_Gates
i put it down to your amazing looks.
you're too kind,Bill!
When is your next trip to the emirates? with all this new found social mobility,i bet you travel a lot!
Original post by RomanKing
No! It's on the incline !
I'd have to disagree with you.
There was a time when going to university and getting a degree was just about enough to make you middle class, if you're working class, you can go and get a degree but still end up working at a non-graduate level and thus, staying working class.
Me, who is qualified up to GCSE level, have often found myself working alongside, and more recently above a plentiful amount of graduates.
So the question is, what makes someone middle class? If it's home ownership, or the ability to own a home, then automatically the majority of young people in this country are unable to reach the middle classes. If it's a graduate job, then a degree won't be enough as students outnumber the amount of grad jobs available. If it's a life without welfare, then members of the current middle class would no longer be classed as middle class.
Upward social mobility is on the decline, and it has been since the post war era of one-nationism and british socialism.
Original post by Lime-man
It's not that it's being dumbed down, it's the lack of the alternative that means people who shouldn't be going to university are going to university.
If anything exams are getting harder, ask any student who's had to revise past papers, they get easier the further back you go. Sort out a decent alternative to university and you sort out social mobility
If anything exams are getting harder, ask any student who's had to revise past papers, they get easier the further back you go. Sort out a decent alternative to university and you sort out social mobility
Aye, compare a A level maths paper from 06 and before to 2013 onwards.
Original post by queen-bee
you're too kind,Bill!
When is your next trip to the emirates? with all this new found social mobility,i bet you travel a lot!
When is your next trip to the emirates? with all this new found social mobility,i bet you travel a lot!
Haha pleasure, will be stopping off for 2 nights on the way to Singapore in April!
Original post by Bill_Gates
Haha pleasure, will be stopping off for 2 nights on the way to Singapore in April!
dubai or ajman?
Original post by queen-bee
dubai or ajman?
Dubai! the weather should be good, celebrating my birthday
I don't think it is due to the perception that education is dumbed down, rather the huge disparity in educational standards. Those in wealthy positions can afford to send their kids to private school or move into the catchment area of well performing school. Then add in things like tutoring, soft activities like musical training, easier access to suitable work experience, and, most importantly, a stable environment to grow up in. Of course the kids are going to waltz their way to academic excellence. Hence they dominate the top universities, dominate graduate recruitments and dominate certain professions like law and medicine.
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