Would you give Labour a chance in 2020?

Do they deserve to win or would they do a better job than the tories are currently doing? Perhaps, and well that's hardly difficult, respectively.

Do I think they will? Well with the press' unending and ridiculous criticism of Corbyn probably not. I don't agree with everything the man said (his comments on the falklands for instance) but some of the stuff the press has said about him is ****ing retarded (that private eye peice showing his actual quotes having no relations to the headlines about him showcased it, or him not bowing low enough on rememberance day even though he then went to another service and spent a long time talking with veterens whilst the tories used rememberance day for political gain, I know which one I find more repugnant). People calling him Comrade Corbyn and other such ********, what is this America during the red scare?

If Osborne, IDS and Hunt continue ****ing things up labour could be in with a chance in spite of all the vitriol thrown at them, but that's hardly an ideal outcome given the poor, the disabled and anyone falling ill will have recieved the same arse rogering the north did under Thatcher.

Reply 81

Rakas21

21

Original post by xxvine

the way the cuts are going if labour have/had a better leader they would have a chance imo

I don't think one can say that. Polling indicates that most people pre-election still blamed Labour for the cuts (Tories cleaning up Labour's mess) and further cuts won't impact opinion because those who dislike them already don't vote Tory and those who do already voted for them in 2015 and probably will do again.

From a cuts point of view, Osbourne is only damaged if the deficit rises be that due to recession or incompetence. As things stand, neither is that likely albeit the global economy has slowed (though one could take the view that if the trough is in 2018 then he could get lucky and catch the upswing afterward).

Reply 82

Rakas21

21

Original post by Gwilym101

Do they deserve to win or would they do a better job than the tories are currently doing? Perhaps, and well that's hardly difficult, respectively.

Do I think they will? Well with the press' unending and ridiculous criticism of Corbyn probably not. I don't agree with everything the man said (his comments on the falklands for instance) but some of the stuff the press has said about him is ****ing retarded (that private eye peice showing his actual quotes having no relations to the headlines about him showcased it, or him not bowing low enough on rememberance day even though he then went to another service and spent a long time talking with veterens whilst the tories used rememberance day for political gain, I know which one I find more repugnant). People calling him Comrade Corbyn and other such ********, what is this America during the red scare?

If Osborne, IDS and Hunt continue ****ing things up labour could be in with a chance in spite of all the vitriol thrown at them, but that's hardly an ideal outcome given the poor, the disabled and anyone falling ill will have recieved the same arse rogering the north did under Thatcher.

IDS, Gove and Johnson are probably getting the sack for a while post-referendum.

Reply 83

MildredMalone

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Original post by Rakas21

IDS, Gove and Johnson are probably getting the sack for a while post-referendum.

Depends on the outcome.

Reply 84

LordMallard

2

Original post by Rakas21

IDS, Gove and Johnson are probably getting the sack for a while post-referendum.

I think IDS will be sacked, but not Gove. Cameron will need to reunite the party.I also expect Priti Patel to be promoted and replace IDS as Welfare Secretary.

Reply 85

username878267

15

Original post by Rakas21

IDS, Gove and Johnson are probably getting the sack for a while post-referendum.

When do you reckon Cameron will step down?

Posted from TSR Mobile

Reply 86

Rakas21

21

Original post by Bornblue

When do you reckon Cameron will step down?

Posted from TSR Mobile

If h wins it'll probably be spring/summer 2018.

Reply 87

username878267

15

Original post by Rakas21

If h wins it'll probably be spring/summer 2018.

I'm surprised the Tories are letting him go without a fight. He's easily your most electable to the public. He didn't have the toxic image that osbourne does and is probably your best pr man. I think Cameron to osbourne will be a slight net loss to the Tories.

Then again labour have Corbyn so probably not too much risk.

Reply 88

xxvine

19

Original post by Rakas21

I don't think one can say that. Polling indicates that most people pre-election still blamed Labour for the cuts (Tories cleaning up Labour's mess) and further cuts won't impact opinion because those who dislike them already don't vote Tory and those who do already voted for them in 2015 and probably will do again.

From a cuts point of view, Osbourne is only damaged if the deficit rises be that due to recession or incompetence. As things stand, neither is that likely albeit the global economy has slowed (though one could take the view that if the trough is in 2018 then he could get lucky and catch the upswing afterward).

I am talking about the ESA Cuts...a lot of people are saying that was wrong as disabled people will be hard done by....you know people who are genuinely ill.

I am not sure what party you support but things like that can rub people the wrong way as anybody can get ill yet it seems the conservatives are happy to punish those in need...which is why I said if they have/had a more competent leader they would have a chance.

Reply 89

KimKallstrom

14

Original post by NoHeroes94

My honest prediction: Cameron serves until 2020, steps down as he said, George Osborne becomes prime minister, either resigns in 2023 or is voted out for a Labour government in 2025. Incompetent shadow of a man....

Some people talk about Osborne as Cameron's successor but I don't see it. Him being made leader would greatly boost Labour's chances.

Reply 90

Davij038

13

@Rakas21

I read somewhere that IDS is only in the cabinet because of pressure from a fair chunk of Traditional Tories whose support Cameron needs. I don't think he'll sack anyone or be in a position to do so- he's already been warned about attacking Boris again- sacking him or any eurosceptic will really cause a civil war I think.

If Dan Jarvis topples Corbyn I think it will be good odds on labour winning, providing Jarvis is willing to compromise.

Reply 91

xxvine

19

Original post by Davij038

@Rakas21

I read somewhere that IDS is only in the cabinet because of pressure from a fair chunk of Traditional Tories whose support Cameron needs. I don't think he'll sack anyone or be in a position to do so- he's already been warned about attacking Boris again- sacking him or any eurosceptic will really cause a civil war I think.

If Dan Jarvis topples Corbyn I think it will be good odds on labour winning, providing Jarvis is willing to compromise.[/QUOTE]

Will labour ever get rid of a leader though? They never have before...
Are they not stuck with Corbyn unless something out the blue happens like Corbyn passes away?

Also what makes you think DJ will be a good leader?

Reply 92

xxvine

19

Original post by Davij038

@Rakas21

I read somewhere that IDS is only in the cabinet because of pressure from a fair chunk of Traditional Tories whose support Cameron needs. I don't think he'll sack anyone or be in a position to do so- he's already been warned about attacking Boris again- sacking him or any eurosceptic will really cause a civil war I think.

If Dan Jarvis topples Corbyn I think it will be good odds on labour winning, providing Jarvis is willing to compromise.

Will labour ever get rid of a leader though? They never have before...Are they not stuck with Corbyn unless something out the blue happens like Corbyn passes away? Also what makes you think DJ will be a good leader?

Reply 93

JC.

19

In their present form they are currently unelectable.
They don't know what they stand for as a party.

Yes.

Posted from TSR Mobile

Reply 95

username1899909

21

Corybn as PM ? Don't think so . we would be finshed in 2 minutes if he was PM

Reply 96

KimKallstrom

14

Original post by xxvine

I am talking about the ESA Cuts...a lot of people are saying that was wrong as disabled people will be hard done by....you know people who are genuinely ill.

I am not sure what party you support but things like that can rub people the wrong way as anybody can get ill yet it seems the conservatives are happy to punish those in need...which is why I said if they have/had a more competent leader they would have a chance.

To be fair, a lot of the noise about the disability benefits changes come from middle-class social justice warriors, since most people who lived in council estates during the Labour years will tell how widespread the abuse of these benefits were and how much it needed changing. Not that the changes didn't result in some genuinely disabled people losing out, but the scale of the problem of layabouts taking the piss had to be seen to be believed. These people must take some of the blame for what we see now because they ruined it for the genuinely needy.

Not that it matters really because social justice warriors would never vote Tory anyway, nor would dossers who abused disability benefits. This touches on a wider point though. A lot of middle-class people and types who support Corbyn (mostly middle-class social justice warriors) don't have a clue what working class people on council estates want because theyve never lived it and they simply can't relate. A lot of these people badly patronise them and see them as brainwashed idiots and then wonder why they get annihilated in elections/polls and lose loads of them to UKIP. Labour don't represent the working class anymore. A lot of Labourites feel this way but don't understand why. They think it's because they're not left enough and blah blah. They simply don't get it. They have no idea what people want.

You can't go and tell people you represent their best interests while trying to undermine them by destroying their means of self-sufficiency and treating them like helpless and incapable idiots. Unfortunately this is Labour in a nutshell but Corbynites and middle-class social justice warriors will never get it (which is why - on a side note - the vast majority of Green Party types are middle-class as well). Obviously the Tories don't represent their interests either which is why UKIP gets votes (while Labourites cluelessly call them boneheads and racists for this lol, exemplifying everything I'm saying to a tee) but at least they're not so disgustingly sanctimonious and deluded with it.

(edited 8 years ago)

Reply 97

Davij038

13

Original post by xxvine

Will labour ever get rid of a leader though? They never have before...Are they not stuck with Corbyn unless something out the blue happens like Corbyn passes away?

Perhaps. Perhaps not. All i can say is that he has the support of a tiny percentage of MP's and that after Ed Miliband a number of MPs realized they should have been more ruthless and gotten rid of him, I think if Labour does as badly as expected and when the EU referendum is over, he will be pushed.

I do think he should be included on the ballot paper regardless, but hopefully he will lose.

Also what makes you think DJ will be a good leader?

1: He will have a far, far greater level of support amongst the PLP and can thus be an effective opposition against what is essentially a mess of a Tory party.

2: Conservative attacks of unpatriotism wont wash on him- (Whereas with Corbyn whilst sometimes unfair (Bowing, Anthem) are sometimes justified (Claims that Russia Today is less biased, Bin Ladin 'Tragedy')etc

Other than that no idea. I think he is the right candidate but needs to be willing to compromise with the Corbynites to some degree, particularly on economic policy but a redeeming quality of Corbyn is that he has shifted economic focus leftwards.

Reply 98

username878267

15

Original post by Davij038

Perhaps. Perhaps not. All i can say is that he has the support of a tiny percentage of MP's and that after Ed Miliband a number of MPs realized they should have been more ruthless and gotten rid of him, I think if Labour does as badly as expected and when the EU referendum is over, he will be pushed.

I do think he should be included on the ballot paper regardless, but hopefully he will lose.

1: He will have a far, far greater level of support amongst the PLP and can thus be an effective opposition against what is essentially a mess of a Tory party.

2: Conservative attacks of unpatriotism wont wash on him- (Whereas with Corbyn whilst sometimes unfair (Bowing, Anthem) are sometimes justified (Claims that Russia Today is less biased, Bin Ladin 'Tragedy')etc

Other than that no idea. I think he is the right candidate but needs to be willing to compromise with the Corbynites to some degree, particularly on economic policy but a redeeming quality of Corbyn is that he has shifted economic focus leftwards.