Is Student Finance Flawed?
Im not sure how it can be seen as fair that one individual will be receiving the full £8.2k just because there parents earn less, why does that matter? Also say in circumstances where a family has say 3 children. I think it is very stupid to make an assumption that all "rich" people have millions of pounds of disposable income which is not the case.
It is also forgotten that many people have mortgages to pay, higher taxes, car insurance and are not gifted things such as housing benefits or whatever else people are given these days for free. In addition many working class kids go to university get the money and blow it on stupid things such as designer shoes or handbags or bottles in clubs to show off when in reality their parents can barely afford the gas bill.
Discuss...
It is also forgotten that many people have mortgages to pay, higher taxes, car insurance and are not gifted things such as housing benefits or whatever else people are given these days for free. In addition many working class kids go to university get the money and blow it on stupid things such as designer shoes or handbags or bottles in clubs to show off when in reality their parents can barely afford the gas bill.
Discuss...
Scroll to see replies
I made a similar post yesterday but people say if your parents earn more they should have saved up for you to go to university before you are born. Obviously I don't agree, I am by no means rich, my family don't even own a house, I grew up mostly with a single mother and my now stepfather is only doing an apprenticeship.
But because of my mother's income which she has only recently been earning that much which is literally 83% of my household income, I am given not the biggest loan. I know people who are only childs, they don't need to pay for rent or mortgages anymore, their parents are near retirement age and they will get 2000 a year more than me.
As if my parents have 2000 a year to hand over to me to cover the difference.
But because of my mother's income which she has only recently been earning that much which is literally 83% of my household income, I am given not the biggest loan. I know people who are only childs, they don't need to pay for rent or mortgages anymore, their parents are near retirement age and they will get 2000 a year more than me.
As if my parents have 2000 a year to hand over to me to cover the difference.
Yes, it is incredibly flawed in favour of poor families. Everyone applying to uni should be given exactly the same amount of loan (except if you live in London, of course), regardless of your household income. I think it is fundamentally unfair to make slightly higher-income families pay for uni out of their own hard-earned pocket. At least the grants are gone now! That was just outrageous. The next step to equality is every student receiving the same loan.
A family on £15-25k, with 3-4 kids and a mortgage will have much less disposable income than a family on £70k+. That is a fact.
The government can't just dole out money to people whose parents earn enough to make up the difference between the min loan and the max loan. Especially not when 45% of those taking out the loan will never pay it back - you're subsidising well off kids in effect.
I agree the system is imperfect. But not fundamentally. There should be provisions to take into account cost of living adjustments because in some cases, a family on £60k in the North will have far more freedom to support their uni going child than the same family on £70-80k in London. On top of this, the form should take into account any other potential liabilities (obviously not credit card debt because that's a case of reckless spending) that could bring down take home pay.
So no, everyone shouldn't get the same. But yes, the system needs to make relative comparisons and should take in more into account than what it currently does. I've seen countless people with well off parents complain about this when all of a sudden when they start uni, they get lovely monthly checks from their parents.
Posted from TSR Mobile
The government can't just dole out money to people whose parents earn enough to make up the difference between the min loan and the max loan. Especially not when 45% of those taking out the loan will never pay it back - you're subsidising well off kids in effect.
I agree the system is imperfect. But not fundamentally. There should be provisions to take into account cost of living adjustments because in some cases, a family on £60k in the North will have far more freedom to support their uni going child than the same family on £70-80k in London. On top of this, the form should take into account any other potential liabilities (obviously not credit card debt because that's a case of reckless spending) that could bring down take home pay.
So no, everyone shouldn't get the same. But yes, the system needs to make relative comparisons and should take in more into account than what it currently does. I've seen countless people with well off parents complain about this when all of a sudden when they start uni, they get lovely monthly checks from their parents.
Posted from TSR Mobile
(edited 8 years ago)
Original post by s0mebodymaybe
I will need to bridge a gap between 5.5k-6k, like i hate when people say yeah but rich parents should pay, why the hell should one person have to pay and the other goes for free? Are you currently at university? I want to know how others are planning their budget -.-
Im really confused, by not repaying the student loan you are just adding to the problem, why are you studying a degree and then expecting the tax payer to pay for your education? Im so confused your post doesnt make sense
Im really confused, by not repaying the student loan you are just adding to the problem, why are you studying a degree and then expecting the tax payer to pay for your education? Im so confused your post doesnt make sense
No I'll be going this year, I don't see a way around it, I either have to accept it and just do less than my actually rich peers or those that get more grant or get a full time job before uni, maybe in summer so I can earn some money to help.
Posted from TSR Mobile
Original post by Princepieman
A family on £15-25k, with 3-4 kids and a mortgage will have much less disposable income than a family on £70k+. That is a fact.
The government can't just dole out money to people who's parents earn enough to make up the difference between the min loan and the max loan. Especially not when 45% of those taking out the loan will never pay it back - you're subsidising well off kids in effect.
I agree the system is imperfect. But not fundamentally. There should be provisions to take into account cost of living adjustments because in some cases, a family on £60k in the North will have far more freedom to support their uni going child than the same family on £70-80k in London. On top of this, the form should take into account any other potential liabilities (obviously not credit card debt because that's a case of reckless spending) that could bring down take home pay.
So no, everyone shouldn't get the same. But yes, the system needs to make relative comparisons and should take in more into account than what it currently does. I've seen countless people with well off parents complain about this when all of a sudden when they start uni, they get lovely monthly checks from their parents.
Posted from TSR Mobile
The government can't just dole out money to people who's parents earn enough to make up the difference between the min loan and the max loan. Especially not when 45% of those taking out the loan will never pay it back - you're subsidising well off kids in effect.
I agree the system is imperfect. But not fundamentally. There should be provisions to take into account cost of living adjustments because in some cases, a family on £60k in the North will have far more freedom to support their uni going child than the same family on £70-80k in London. On top of this, the form should take into account any other potential liabilities (obviously not credit card debt because that's a case of reckless spending) that could bring down take home pay.
So no, everyone shouldn't get the same. But yes, the system needs to make relative comparisons and should take in more into account than what it currently does. I've seen countless people with well off parents complain about this when all of a sudden when they start uni, they get lovely monthly checks from their parents.
Posted from TSR Mobile
I completely disagree. Why don't people on lower incomes hoping to go to uni get a job and save up?
People with high incomes don't get that money on a plate - they work hard for it.
Original post by Princepieman
A family on £15-25k, with 3-4 kids and a mortgage will have much less disposable income than a family on £70k+. That is a fact.
The government can't just dole out money to people who's parents earn enough to make up the difference between the min loan and the max loan. Especially not when 45% of those taking out the loan will never pay it back - you're subsidising well off kids in effect.
I agree the system is imperfect. But not fundamentally. There should be provisions to take into account cost of living adjustments because in some cases, a family on £60k in the North will have far more freedom to support their uni going child than the same family on £70-80k in London. On top of this, the form should take into account any other potential liabilities (obviously not credit card debt because that's a case of reckless spending) that could bring down take home pay.
So no, everyone shouldn't get the same. But yes, the system needs to make relative comparisons and should take in more into account than what it currently does. I've seen countless people with well off parents complain about this when all of a sudden when they start uni, they get lovely monthly checks from their parents.
Posted from TSR Mobile
The government can't just dole out money to people who's parents earn enough to make up the difference between the min loan and the max loan. Especially not when 45% of those taking out the loan will never pay it back - you're subsidising well off kids in effect.
I agree the system is imperfect. But not fundamentally. There should be provisions to take into account cost of living adjustments because in some cases, a family on £60k in the North will have far more freedom to support their uni going child than the same family on £70-80k in London. On top of this, the form should take into account any other potential liabilities (obviously not credit card debt because that's a case of reckless spending) that could bring down take home pay.
So no, everyone shouldn't get the same. But yes, the system needs to make relative comparisons and should take in more into account than what it currently does. I've seen countless people with well off parents complain about this when all of a sudden when they start uni, they get lovely monthly checks from their parents.
Posted from TSR Mobile
What about if the higher earning family had more children than the lower earning one? What if a family earns more but has a lower net worth?
Posted from TSR Mobile
Original post by littlenorthernlass
I completely disagree. Why don't people on lower incomes hoping to go to uni get a job and save up?
People with high incomes don't get that money on a plate - they work hard for it.
People with high incomes don't get that money on a plate - they work hard for it.
Yeah, they should save up (i.e. be put through even more grief) when the people with parents on high incomes have mostly reaped the rewards that they never worked hard for. Completely fair.
Fact is, kids with parents on low incomes have had nowhere near the same opportunity or prior quality of life as their high income parent friends. You're essentially saying: 'yeah, these poor kids have been through a lot, oh well, make them work even more just so they can afford a chance at uni'.
I just don't see the logic in your argument.
Original post by Dinasaurus
What about if the higher earning family had more children than the lower earning one? What if a family earns more but has a lower net worth?
Posted from TSR Mobile
Posted from TSR Mobile
That's already taken into account. Net worth means squat if it's based on primary home - a poor inner city Londoner would be penalised for living in a 'theoretically' million pound home. Although yes, cash assets should be taken into account.
In an ideal situation, yeh, everybody would get the same amount of loan or every person would get assessed individually on need but considering the amount of people who dont end up paying it back this isn't really a viable option due to the huge extra cost this would be. The thing is, for the majority of students whose parents earn more their parents can easily give them the extra money they need for uni, and in most cases a lot more.
Yeh a few people unfortunately are negatively effected by this due to their parents not being willing to give them extra money or not having it avaliable, but this is a small proportion of people. The best solution would be that these people get assessed on a case by case basis, but once again i cant see this being viable option due to the extra time and money that would be needed for this.
Ultimately, very very very rarely is someone not able to go to uni due to their parents income - they still get a small loan and ultimately most parents do end up being able to give them extra money, by like cutting back on things that lower income families already dont do (e.g. Shopping at waitrose or something). Or you can get a job - e.g. I work all summer full time and part time at uni to make up the extra money i need, i dont get any help from my parents.
Yeh a few people unfortunately are negatively effected by this due to their parents not being willing to give them extra money or not having it avaliable, but this is a small proportion of people. The best solution would be that these people get assessed on a case by case basis, but once again i cant see this being viable option due to the extra time and money that would be needed for this.
Ultimately, very very very rarely is someone not able to go to uni due to their parents income - they still get a small loan and ultimately most parents do end up being able to give them extra money, by like cutting back on things that lower income families already dont do (e.g. Shopping at waitrose or something). Or you can get a job - e.g. I work all summer full time and part time at uni to make up the extra money i need, i dont get any help from my parents.
Original post by Princepieman
Yeah, they should save up (i.e. be put through even more grief) when the people with parents on high incomes have mostly reaped the rewards that they never worked hard for. Completely fair.
Fact is, kids with parents on low incomes have had nowhere near the same opportunity or prior quality of life as their high income parent friends. You're essentially saying: 'yeah, these poor kids have been through a lot, oh well, make them work even more just so they can afford a chance at uni'.
I just don't see the logic in your argument.
Fact is, kids with parents on low incomes have had nowhere near the same opportunity or prior quality of life as their high income parent friends. You're essentially saying: 'yeah, these poor kids have been through a lot, oh well, make them work even more just so they can afford a chance at uni'.
I just don't see the logic in your argument.
They should raise the cap on what is considered high income, I have friends who are apparently low income households but they absolutely had a more wealthy upbringing than me.
Obviously I am lucky compared to those in like poverty in other countries but I've clearly not had any special life compared to the rest of the kids who are also at the same state school as me, who seem to have a lot more disposable income than me and will proceed to get more money for uni than I will, which in addition to their parents higher disposable income means they will be much better off than me.
Speaking to my friends who just scrape above this 42k household income value, it seems they share my sentiments. Their parents do not have the disposable income to provide as much for them but it is not too low as for the government to provide for them.
Posted from TSR Mobile
Original post by Princepieman
Yeah, they should save up (i.e. be put through even more grief) when the people with parents on high incomes have mostly reaped the rewards that they never worked hard for. Completely fair.
Fact is, kids with parents on low incomes have had nowhere near the same opportunity or prior quality of life as their high income parent friends. You're essentially saying: 'yeah, these poor kids have been through a lot, oh well, make them work even more just so they can afford a chance at uni'.
I just don't see the logic in your argument.
Fact is, kids with parents on low incomes have had nowhere near the same opportunity or prior quality of life as their high income parent friends. You're essentially saying: 'yeah, these poor kids have been through a lot, oh well, make them work even more just so they can afford a chance at uni'.
I just don't see the logic in your argument.
Yeah, they should. The people who have worked hard are the parents on the high incomes and they can do what they want with their money. They worked hard for that money and they shouldn't be disadvantaged because of that! We work hard for money SO that we can buy nice things for ourselves and our children. That's the whole point of work.
Shall we give low income families free tvs and whatnot because it's 'not fair' that they can't afford it? No, that would be stupid.
Lots of students from higher income families still have to find part time work to fund themselves. Why should low income families be given bigger loans so they don't have to work? How is that fair?
(edited 8 years ago)
Original post by Princepieman
That's already taken into account. Net worth means squat if it's based on primary home - a poor inner city Londoner would be penalised for living in a 'theoretically' million pound home. Although yes, cash assets should be taken into account.
Most older families own houses in the UK, whereas a young immigrant family who earns more money right now may not have been earning that much for long enough to buy a house and rent costs.
Some of my poor friends were able to take advantage of old house buying schemes that were around long ago.
Posted from TSR Mobile
Original post by LiquidGold
In an ideal situation, yeh, everybody would get the same amount of loan or every person would get assessed individually on need but considering the amount of people who dont end up paying it back this isn't really a viable option due to the huge extra cost this would be. The thing is, for the majority of students whose parents earn more their parents can easily give them the extra money they need for uni, and in most cases a lot more.
Yeh a few people unfortunately are negatively effected by this due to their parents not being willing to give them extra money or not having it avaliable, but this is a small proportion of people. The best solution would be that these people get assessed on a case by case basis, but once again i cant see this being viable option due to the extra time and money that would be needed for this.
Ultimately, very very very rarely is someone not able to go to uni due to their parents income - they still get a small loan and ultimately most parents do end up being able to give them extra money, by like cutting back on things that lower income families already dont do (e.g. Shopping at waitrose or something). Or you can get a job - e.g. I work all summer full time and part time at uni to make up the extra money i need, i dont get any help from my parents.
Yeh a few people unfortunately are negatively effected by this due to their parents not being willing to give them extra money or not having it avaliable, but this is a small proportion of people. The best solution would be that these people get assessed on a case by case basis, but once again i cant see this being viable option due to the extra time and money that would be needed for this.
Ultimately, very very very rarely is someone not able to go to uni due to their parents income - they still get a small loan and ultimately most parents do end up being able to give them extra money, by like cutting back on things that lower income families already dont do (e.g. Shopping at waitrose or something). Or you can get a job - e.g. I work all summer full time and part time at uni to make up the extra money i need, i dont get any help from my parents.
You think just because someone isn't classes as a low income household that they earn enough to shop in Waitrose?
There's a big difference from 40k and something like 60-70k
Posted from TSR Mobile
The whole education system is flawed in that in general those who come from better socioeconomic backgrounds do far better from it. It always amazes me that rather than acknowledging that they've had it easy and working to fund their education, they complaint that someone else has a little bit more loan or grant than they do.
Original post by littlenorthernlass
Yeah, they should. The people who have worked hard are those on the high incomes and they can do what they want with their money.
Shall we give low income families free tvs and whatnot because it's 'not fair' that they can't afford it? No, that would be stupid.
Lots of students from higher income families still have to find part time work to fund themselves. Why should low income families be given bigger loans so they don't have to work? How is that fair?
Shall we give low income families free tvs and whatnot because it's 'not fair' that they can't afford it? No, that would be stupid.
Lots of students from higher income families still have to find part time work to fund themselves. Why should low income families be given bigger loans so they don't have to work? How is that fair?
Really? The parents on high incomes aren't the people in question here.. Their KIDS are. Their kids haven't worked their butts off to get high incomes yet they have lived in much better quality surroundings, and have had access to several more opportunties without doing anything except being born into a high earning household.
Lol, a TV isn't going to help someone move from working/underclass to middle class or above.. Middle class kids are already middle class, there's no incentive to help them 'step up'. That's a pretty redundant comparison. You're comparing someone being able to eat and live to a material possession..
Oh well, tough. They've still had a better life, on average, than the poor kids. The poor kids have probably been working since they've been able to just in order to help out and actually survive. So what if a kid with high income parents has to get a little down in the dirts a bit? That's life and that's the life that poor kids have had to deal with.
Original post by Dinasaurus
You think just because someone isn't classes as a low income household that they earn enough to shop in Waitrose?
There's a big difference from 40k and something like 60-70k
Posted from TSR Mobile
There's a big difference from 40k and something like 60-70k
Posted from TSR Mobile
40k is still pretty decent though. My mum had to try and support herself and me and my 2 sisters on her 14k a year job.
I think there are flaws in the system but the two situations are pretty different, right?
Original post by s0mebodymaybe
You do realise just because you were poor before university, doesnt equate to you being treated like royalty once you are there dont you? Parents work hard for their kids be it poor or rich most parents want the best of their kids, to suggest that poor kids dont need to work but the rich kids do is ****ing hilarious
That's your opinion.
No one's being treated like 'royalty' the full loan isn't an annualised minimum wage pay, it's enough to get by when at uni.
Original post by littlenorthernlass
I completely disagree. Why don't people on lower incomes hoping to go to uni get a job and save up?
People with high incomes don't get that money on a plate - they work hard for it.
People with high incomes don't get that money on a plate - they work hard for it.
I don't think you realise how little disposable income people on lower incomes have to actually save up. I work 18hrs a week earning £5.30 an hour. That's £95 a week before I take out petrol costs and my contribution towards the bills. I would love to save more money but it's difficult when you live barely above the breadline.
I can't work more hours because I need the time to study and get good grades and I need down time too. I don't want to burn out. Saving is difficult because there has been months where we've needed my salary to help out. My mum works full time at above minimum wage but it's not enough to cover all of the costs. Rent, food, petrol, gas, electric, t.v, internet, water, council tax etc.
Your comment is actually really insensitive. When you consider that millions of homes in britain rely upon food banks and second jobs to make ends meet because their pay doesn't make ends meet.
In some cases no, people on lower incomes can't always just save up.
It's that kind of mentality that would end up leaving higher education only for the rich, further increasing the pay gap. People in my situation need that money because their wage doesn't make ends meet. Without the extra help god knows what would've happened.
I'll turn your question back on you.
Why didn't you get a job and save up? Your parents were in a stable financial position right? You didn't worry about having a roof over your head and food to eat right? You didn't have to work and you chose not to. You could've easily had a job and put away a lot of money.
Quick Reply
Related discussions
- What do I do?
- Childcare Grant
- Ideas for presentation on current issues in education
- St Andrews or King's College London for postgraduate master degree?
- LSE Undergraduate Politics and IR 2024
- Montague Burton
- 26yo married Londoner, TSR changed my life AMA
- Foundation with Mechanical Engineering advise
- Student Finance for Undergrads!
- Official Leeds Arts University freshers 2023 chat
- Student Finance: A Rough Guide and Where to Access Help!
- Is anyone doing Global Humanitarian Studies at UCL?
- NHS learning support fund
- University of Manchester or Sciences Po?
- Re: How much student finance in third year of undergraduate degree?
- the problem of evil
- Student Finance
- English to Welsh finance change
- SFE Application for Midwifery in Wales
- Student Finance England – ‘How to’ guide
Latest
Trending
Last reply 3 days ago
If you could instantly become fluent in any foreign language which one would it be?Last reply 3 months ago
About the NCUK IFY Program for university Studies in the UKTrending
Last reply 3 days ago
If you could instantly become fluent in any foreign language which one would it be?Last reply 3 months ago
About the NCUK IFY Program for university Studies in the UK
