"I think Islam hates us," Donald Trump
http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2016-election/donald-trump-attacks-muslims-islam-hates-us-n535656
Donald Trump making provocative statements is nothing new. His comments are divisive, discriminatory, and offensive. They are also not true, but they aren't untrue either. Here is what he should have said.
There is a large faction of Islam which hates the west and hates America in particular. The extremists may represent the minority of muslims, but so do the truly moderate muslims. The majority of Islamic followers are somewhere in between, and that is the problem. Traditional western values (Secularism) and traditional Islamic values (islamism) are not tenable with one another. The western solution is to appease the opposition, and the Islamists solution is to intimidate the opposition. The result is that western values are being threatened by islamism. That makes us feel "like Islam hates us." The feeling is not wrong, even if it isn't precisely true.
Donald Trump making provocative statements is nothing new. His comments are divisive, discriminatory, and offensive. They are also not true, but they aren't untrue either. Here is what he should have said.
There is a large faction of Islam which hates the west and hates America in particular. The extremists may represent the minority of muslims, but so do the truly moderate muslims. The majority of Islamic followers are somewhere in between, and that is the problem. Traditional western values (Secularism) and traditional Islamic values (islamism) are not tenable with one another. The western solution is to appease the opposition, and the Islamists solution is to intimidate the opposition. The result is that western values are being threatened by islamism. That makes us feel "like Islam hates us." The feeling is not wrong, even if it isn't precisely true.
(edited 8 years ago)
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Original post by ckingalt
His comments are divisive, discriminatory, and offensive. They are also not true, but they aren't untrue either. Here is what he should have said.
He's appealing to a specific electorate who probably appreciates this bluntness.
(edited 8 years ago)
Original post by Aceadria
He's appealing to a specific electorate who probably appreciate this bluntness.
TSR unicorn confirmed.
I came to this country to eat all of your Nutella. This is true hate.
Original post by Ibn Fulaan
I came to this country to eat all of your Nutella. This is true hate.
Stop stealing our hazelnut-based chocolate spread!
Islam does hate us (non-Muslims that is) as evidenced by the dozens of passages in the Quran calling us all sorts of names and gleefully describing how we'll be tortured in fire.
Original post by Plantagenet Crown
Islam does hate us (non-Muslims that is) as evidenced by the dozens of passages in the Quran calling us all sorts of names and gleefully describing how we'll be tortured in fire.
Parts of The Quran also form the basis of ISIS ideology which is in part defined by intolerance of non-Muslims. This is why this type of extremism is difficult to defeat- because they can technically use The Quran as justification. The fact that the Quran can lend itself to those interpretations is ultimately the root cause. Although sometimes I think Islam is just being used as a vehicle for an inevitable rebellion against western imperialism. Idk.
Original post by Ethereal World
Parts of The Quran also form the basis of ISIS ideology which is in part defined by intolerance of non-Muslims. This is why this type of extremism is difficult to defeat- because they can technically use The Quran as justification. The fact that the Quran can lend itself to those interpretations is ultimately the root cause. Although sometimes I think Islam is just being used as a vehicle for an inevitable rebellion against western imperialism. Idk.
It need not be one or the other, but both. These extremists want to live 1400 years in the past and to do that they have to "wage war on Western lifestyles", something newspapers recently reported as being one of ISIS' aims. And this waging war stems from the doctrine that the Quran is perfect, unchangeable and relevant to all times and places.
(edited 8 years ago)
Original post by Plantagenet Crown
It need not be one or the other, but both. These extremists want to live 1400 years in the past and to do that they have to "wage war on Western lifestyles", something newspapers recently reported as being one of ISIS' aims. And this waging war stems from the doctrine that the Quran is perfect, unchangeable and relevant to all times and places.
Indeed PC- they are not mutually exclusive. Thank you for that insight.
Yes indeed they think western lifestyle is abhorrent, especially the fact muslims and non-Muslims live in civilisation and tolerance. The acts of terrorism attempt to break down that system by dividing our societies with the fear it creates.
Trump is simply playing on that fear and offering them a sort of pseudo-vacuum where 'everything can be fine again if we deal with X' and the transfer of the problem to Islam is a very effective tool because it keeps up the pretence that it's not the dynamic capitalism has created which is ultimately the problem.
He will tone this down once he's the republican candidate I'm sure.
Radical Islam hates the US, true. Vast majority of followers of Islam don't.
By deliberately not making this distinction, Trump is constructing an imaginary enemy out of muslims as a whole, creating a climate where he can implement ideas like banning all muslims from entering the country or constructing a national database etc.
By deliberately not making this distinction, Trump is constructing an imaginary enemy out of muslims as a whole, creating a climate where he can implement ideas like banning all muslims from entering the country or constructing a national database etc.
Original post by JuliusDS92
Radical Islam hates the US, true. Vast majority of followers of Islam don't.
By deliberately not making this distinction, Trump is constructing an imaginary enemy out of muslims as a whole, creating a climate where he can implement ideas like banning all muslims from entering the country or constructing a national database etc.
By deliberately not making this distinction, Trump is constructing an imaginary enemy out of muslims as a whole, creating a climate where he can implement ideas like banning all muslims from entering the country or constructing a national database etc.
Bolded the key word.
The people that think Trump is 'stupid' are ironically pretty stupid themselves.
The candidacy is like marketing a product. He needs a USP and his target audience need to be understood to modify his approach accordingly to widen and intensify his appeal.
In that respect, he (and his team) are very intelligent and they know exactly what they're doing, and with all the money he's got as well- he's got the formula for getting into power.
Original post by JuliusDS92
Vast majority of followers of Islam don't.
By essence that would make them very 'un-Islamic'.
Original post by JuliusDS92
Radical Islam hates the US, true. Vast majority of followers of Islam don't.
By deliberately not making this distinction, Trump is constructing an imaginary enemy out of muslims as a whole, creating a climate where he can implement ideas like banning all muslims from entering the country or constructing a national database etc.
By deliberately not making this distinction, Trump is constructing an imaginary enemy out of muslims as a whole, creating a climate where he can implement ideas like banning all muslims from entering the country or constructing a national database etc.
Trump is using a tried and tested method to get support from one group by confirming their prejudices and hatred of another group. Its worked in every century and every country you can think of and I am sure it will work in the US. Americans are just like any other people after all.
I think he will get a lot of support from white Americans from all strata of society and some blacks as well because they enemy are the new immigrants who no one knows and its easy to make them hated.
If Trump becomes president, he will have to get tough on Muslims like closing mosques and making all Muslims wear electronic tags like criminals on parole. He will also fire them from government jobs and the military.
People like Obama, Bush and Clinton take their foreign policy advice from Zionist neo-cons whose agenda has always been to destabilize the Middle East and the bonus is they can finish off destroying Europe with the refugee crisis.
Trump needs to wake up and realise what the real problem in America is.
I realised this when people like the ADL attacked him. What hypocrites. Israel has a wall, they have a immigration policy that is if you're not Jewish, you're not allowed in. What hypocrites then are the Jewish people who preach in the West that diversity is strength... They do the same in Britain I can list the names of those in Tony Blair's government who flooded Britain with mass immigration!
Whites wake up.
Trump needs to wake up and realise what the real problem in America is.
I realised this when people like the ADL attacked him. What hypocrites. Israel has a wall, they have a immigration policy that is if you're not Jewish, you're not allowed in. What hypocrites then are the Jewish people who preach in the West that diversity is strength... They do the same in Britain I can list the names of those in Tony Blair's government who flooded Britain with mass immigration!
Whites wake up.
(edited 8 years ago)
Original post by Aceadria
By essence that would make them very 'un-Islamic'.
Even if this were true, Trump knows his supporters aren't going to make this distinction, and anyone who prays at a mosque or identifies as a Muslim (regardless of whether they hate the west or not) will be fair game for them.
The best interpretations of the qur'aan are from the prophet peace be upon him and his companions. You can't just read the qur'aan and interpret it the way you want. Also reading the qur'aan in english does not do it justice. The difficulty translators of the qur'aan find is that a few words of its arabic can translate to paragraphs in english, but translators don't have paragraphs of room, they usually only have a few lines.
Re : Donald Drumpfs comments, this is just another one of his extremely vague hate filled comments. You might be tired of hearing this and may not believe it, but Islam is a religion of peace, compassion and mercy. Islam hates no one, but muslims might.
Re : Donald Drumpfs comments, this is just another one of his extremely vague hate filled comments. You might be tired of hearing this and may not believe it, but Islam is a religion of peace, compassion and mercy. Islam hates no one, but muslims might.
Original post by JuliusDS92
Even if this were true, Trump knows his supporters aren't going to make this distinction
No, he doesn't. This election is unique in that candidates are attracting voters from segments not traditionally associated with them. Take South Carolina, for example. The establishment voters, e.g. moderate-conservatives, voted for Trump. Are you therefore suggesting that the average Republican is unable to understand basic Islam?
Original post by JuliusDS92
and anyone who prays at a mosque or identifies as a Muslim (regardless of whether they hate the west or not) will be fair game for them.
Far too presumptuous. You're again going with the conclusion that Trump's voter-base is identical.
Original post by Aceadria
No, he doesn't. This election is unique in that candidates are attracting voters from segments not traditionally associated with them. Take South Carolina, for example. The establishment voters, e.g. moderate-conservatives, voted for Trump. Are you therefore suggesting that the average Republican is unable to understand basic Islam?
Far too presumptuous. You're again going with the conclusion that Trump's voter-base is identical.
Far too presumptuous. You're again going with the conclusion that Trump's voter-base is identical.
If these voters knew the difference between an ordinary Muslim and someone who uses Islam to justify terror and murder, they won't vote for Trump would they?
Fearful and vengeful people like to be told they are right.
(edited 8 years ago)
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