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Google AI beats world Go champion in 4 out of 5 games

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@Puddles the Monkey


I've watched the first game in its 4-hour entirety and it's absolutely fascinating. From what I could understand whilst watching it is that the computer is weighing up the fine margins between winning and losing. It's not going for the decisive win, yet it's clever enough to know that giving up a few points here, to gain a few MORE points elsewhere in a delicate and tactical manner is going to give it the slightest of victory margins... It's playing a war of attrition rather than a full on assault.

It's a level of comprehension I can only dream of :lol:

Time to watch match 2 in it's 4-hour entirety :colone: . See you at lunch! :tongue:
This AI is another big step towards the eradication of the human race. As soon as a self aware AI is created, the first thing it would do would be to wipe out the human race.
Original post by Nirgilis
@Puddles the Monkey


I've watched the first game in its 4-hour entirety and it's absolutely fascinating. From what I could understand whilst watching it is that the computer is weighing up the fine margins between winning and losing. It's not going for the decisive win, yet it's clever enough to know that giving up a few points here, to gain a few MORE points elsewhere in a delicate and tactical manner is going to give it the slightest of victory margins... It's playing a war of attrition rather than a full on assault.

It's a level of comprehension I can only dream of :lol:

Time to watch match 2 in it's 4-hour entirety :colone: . See you at lunch! :tongue:


My question was answered in the next video at 47 minutes...

"AlphaGo tries to maximise it's probability of winning, but it doesn't care about the margin. If it sees two moves, one giving it an 80% chance of a 20-point victory, and one giving it a 90% chance of a 1-point victory, AlphaGo will pick the second choice. This goes against some of the instincts of Go players, particularly amateurs [...]".

Astounding :tongue:
Original post by Nirgilis
@Puddles the Monkey


I've watched the first game in its 4-hour entirety and it's absolutely fascinating. From what I could understand whilst watching it is that the computer is weighing up the fine margins between winning and losing. It's not going for the decisive win, yet it's clever enough to know that giving up a few points here, to gain a few MORE points elsewhere in a delicate and tactical manner is going to give it the slightest of victory margins... It's playing a war of attrition rather than a full on assault.

It's a level of comprehension I can only dream of :lol:

Time to watch match 2 in it's 4-hour entirety :colone: . See you at lunch! :tongue:


Yeah, you should try watching the AGA reviews of the games here. They're useful and a bit more in depth then the official stream. Plus the dynamic between Andrew Jackson and Myungwan Kim is hilarious.

We don't really know *just* how strong AlphaGo is because it plays to win and will take a secure win with less points - so there's lots of times when it looks like AlphaGo has made a mistake when actually it's just solidifying it's position to make a surer win. Pros do this too but AlphaGo can do it to such a fine level :eek3:

I want to see AlphaGo play itself.
I also hope Google releases a transcript of the games showing AlphaGo's level of certainty at each move so we can see how early on it was sure it was winning.
Reply 25
Avatar for Hiamint
Hiamint
Alphago's play is extremely reminiscent of a player who is often considered the best ever, the reigning champion before Lee Sedol, Lee Chang Ho. They both play an extremely solid, safe style, often ignoring seemingly better moves for another move has a higher chance of victory in the long run. Lee Chang Ho also happens to be the one of the only players to have a 50%+ win record against Lee Sedol, which suggests that the Alphago matchup is stylistically bad for Lee Sedol. Not to mention that Lee Sedol threw away game 1 with complacency and two gigantic blunders. Lee Sedol has a very tough match up against it. Alphago (like Lee Chang Ho did) has an extremely strong (some will call it perfect) late game, which is why I believe Lee Sedol has to play the hyperaggressive style he used to play in the early 20s. I think an unconventional beginning (maybe start with the first move on the centre of the board) into constant battling will force out Alphago to overuse its time and make mistakes. Also, props for google for making Alphago. I am seriously considering switching my major to Computer Science to study A.I.s!
That's why it's so amazing, for the first time ever, humanity is creating real artificial intelligence.
Original post by Hiamint
Alphago's play is extremely reminiscent of a player who is often considered the best ever, the reigning champion before Lee Sedol, Lee Chang Ho. They both play an extremely solid, safe style, often ignoring seemingly better moves for another move has a higher chance of victory in the long run. Lee Chang Ho also happens to be the one of the only players to have a 50%+ win record against Lee Sedol, which suggests that the Alphago matchup is stylistically bad for Lee Sedol. Not to mention that Lee Sedol threw away game 1 with complacency and two gigantic blunders. Lee Sedol has a very tough match up against it. Alphago (like Lee Chang Ho did) has an extremely strong (some will call it perfect) late game, which is why I believe Lee Sedol has to play the hyperaggressive style he used to play in the early 20s. I think an unconventional beginning (maybe start with the first move on the centre of the board) into constant battling will force out Alphago to overuse its time and make mistakes. Also, props for google for making Alphago. I am seriously considering switching my major to Computer Science to study A.I.s!


Do you play Go? :biggrin:
Kim Jong Un would nail the little bastard. Balls back in humans court.
Original post by Puddles the Monkey
Do you play Go? :biggrin:


Go is not even the most popular board game in China. China invented another chess game that became more popular than Go. Go is now more played in Japan and Korea than in China.

Also Mahjong.
Every part of who I am is breeding a hatred for AI -- my ego, love for poker etc etc

Original post by HucktheForde
Go is not even the most popular board game in China. China invented another chess game that became more popular than Go. Go is now more played in Japan and Korea than in China.Also Mahjong.


Watch Akagi right now
(edited 8 years ago)
It is astounding to think that an artificial intelligence can now beat human intelligence. Technology nowadays seem to be better and better each day. However, there might (and will) come a time where humans will be too reliant on artificial intelligence. This can also be worrying because this might slow down the process of human intelligence and would affect the human generation. Though, I do applaud Google for creating such technology, but it is worrying for our future generation.


Posted from TSR Mobile
Original post by YourName___
Every part of who I am is breeding a hatred for AI -- my ego, love for poker etc etc



Watch Akagi right now


no thank you
[scroll]:yay:[/scroll]

Lee made one particular move (79?) which AlphaGo didn't read properly.... it got confused, and didn't realise the significance of that move until about 10 moves later, when it suddenly 'realised' what had happened.

After that AlphaGo realised it was behind and reacted to losing in the usual bot manner (which I thought was really interesting) by basically losing its **** and playing loads of random bad/pointless aggressive moves in an attempt to turn the game around. I'm still not 100% clear on why bots do this :beard:

Lee Sedol reaction to bad AlphaGo move:


[video="youtube;GUxuhBDj8Qg"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GUxuhBDj8Qg[/video]
Reply 34
Avatar for Doones
Doones
21
Original post by Puddles the Monkey
[scroll]:yay:[/scroll]

Lee made one particular move (79?) which AlphaGo didn't read properly.... it got confused, and didn't realise the significance of that move until about 10 moves later, when it suddenly 'realised' what had happened.

After that AlphaGo realised it was behind and reacted to losing in the usual bot manner (which I thought was really interesting) by basically losing its **** and playing loads of random bad/pointless aggressive moves in an attempt to turn the game around. I'm still not 100% clear on why bots do this :beard:

Lee Sedol reaction to bad AlphaGo move:


[video="youtube;GUxuhBDj8Qg"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GUxuhBDj8Qg[/video]


That was pure:
@jneill

Yeah it's amazing, he looks flabbergasted :biggrin: Then he even looks at the screen to make sure the guy placing stones for AlphaGo got it right :lol:
Original post by Puddles the Monkey
[scroll]:yay:[/scroll]

Lee made one particular move (79?) which AlphaGo didn't read properly.... it got confused, and didn't realise the significance of that move until about 10 moves later, when it suddenly 'realised' what had happened.

After that AlphaGo realised it was behind and reacted to losing in the usual bot manner (which I thought was really interesting) by basically losing its **** and playing loads of random bad/pointless aggressive moves in an attempt to turn the game around. I'm still not 100% clear on why bots do this :beard:

Lee Sedol reaction to bad AlphaGo move:


[video="youtube;GUxuhBDj8Qg"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GUxuhBDj8Qg[/video]


Does this suggest that feints work well against AI?
Original post by Kvothe the arcane
Does this suggest that feints work well against AI?


I don't think so, because the AI would still respond to the move correctly.

I think it's more that a human wouldn't bother even trying these moves because they understand it's pointless, whereas a bot can't factor that in so will still try the move because it has nothing to lose.

It's kind of frustrating when you're playing against someone and they make these kinds of moves in order to try and 'trick' you in to missing something/making a mistake. Myungwan Kim on the AGA review kept saying that AlphaGo is really rude and the Deepmind team need to teach it manners :rofl:
Slightly disappointing end to the series of games, AlphaGo wins the final match....
Reply 39
Avatar for Doones
Doones
21
Original post by Puddles the Monkey
Slightly disappointing end to the series of games, AlphaGo wins the final match....


:frown: although apparently the game was good (not knowing anything about Go, except that it isn't Othello, the intricacies are beyond me.)

And isn't Lee Sedol the world #2? I wonder how much £$€¥ the #1 will want to even appear nevermind win...

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