Atheist Q and A
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[QUOTE=Plantagenet Crown;63353251]Well why doesn't prayer work like that? This response just seems an attempt to reconcile the fact that people's prayers for these things don't get answers and thus largely destroys the notion that it's actually a thing. It's amusing how the only prayers that ever seem to be answered are things that could have happened naturally anyway.
Never replied to this. My mistake....
Why does a god have to be like in the Bible?
Why does it have to be this all singing and dancing power which constantly watches us all at the same time and answers everything?
Can't it be more abstract? Less extroverted?
An omni-present feature which is perhaps influencial upon death. Maybe it isn't. Maybe it created it all but has no influence. Nobody can say for sure, however, just because it doesn't answer prayers for everyone, everytime, does not mean it doesn't exist.
Never replied to this. My mistake....
Why does a god have to be like in the Bible?
Why does it have to be this all singing and dancing power which constantly watches us all at the same time and answers everything?
Can't it be more abstract? Less extroverted?
An omni-present feature which is perhaps influencial upon death. Maybe it isn't. Maybe it created it all but has no influence. Nobody can say for sure, however, just because it doesn't answer prayers for everyone, everytime, does not mean it doesn't exist.
Original post by Unistudent77
An omni-present feature which is perhaps influencial upon death. Maybe it isn't. Maybe it created it all but has no influence.
An omni-present feature which is perhaps influencial upon death. Maybe it isn't. Maybe it created it all but has no influence.
Dunno about anyone else, but this seems to perfectly describe physics, chemistry and biology to me.
physics, chemistry and biology have proved that there is no God
[QUOTE=frankieboy;63365039]Dunno about anyone else, but this seems to perfectly describe physics, chemistry and biology to me.
As i've said, this is possible too. Either it was a scientific creation or we were created by a higher being.
A simple difference of opinion/weighing of likelihoods etc.
As i've said, this is possible too. Either it was a scientific creation or we were created by a higher being.
A simple difference of opinion/weighing of likelihoods etc.
Original post by makehomework
physics, chemistry and biology have proved that there is no God
Careful. You'll invite the stock religious comeback of "Ah but God exists outside of science" etc. etc.
Original post by Unistudent77
If there is a 'higher being' then it can't intervene. The gunmen think they are right so it can't rank one person over another.
Evidence that fear of a higher being doesn't necessarily stop "bad deeds".
Original post by Unistudent77
Anyway, i don't think 'it' intervenes in daily life.
Sure, so the power of "it" is only limited to after death? or "afterlife", if you will
Original post by Unistudent77
I agree with you on Obama being in favour of trying to change things but with the Republicans holding power in the other houses then he is effectively powerless...
An executive order here and there does not hurt, consider 90% of American people are in favour of universal national checks (http://www.politifact.com/texas/statements/2015/oct/05/jeremy-bird/jeremy-bird-says-90-percent-americans-want-mandato/)
Original post by Unistudent77
Thanks for your answer re 'morality', a good one i think...I still think without the fear of a higher 'judgement' then that innate predisposition to do 'good' could be easily overrun.
I'm glad you think so
. Well my opinion is that humans are built to learn, adapt and survive (not just as an individual but as a society too). Would you not think that "learned" morality - or "through experience" if you will - is better than "morality through fear"? We could analogise between a controlled fascistic super-state (e.g. Soviet Union or Libyan Arab Jamahiriya) vs a relatively free state (e.g. Norway), one is where you are "forced" to be good, other you "learn" to be good, which one has a better sense of morality? I know this could be a poor analogy, but I hope you get the gist.Original post by Unistudent77
I think it would come down to whether you harmed others. If so, what were your intensions... Were they malicious? What was the result.
The point I was trying to make is that "intentions" can sometimes be grey areas. A karma system may not be any better at increasing morality as you mention.
Original post by Unistudent77
I don't envisage some gate which either opens or sends you elsewhere... I just hope there is some kind of reward, leveling of the playing field.
I would love to believe all the nice things about an afterlife, reward, supernatural, all-powerful/merciful being - but I don't think I can get myself to
Original post by Unistudent77
In the form of another life or a good time elsewhere (heaven idea). Idk. Nobody does.
Ain't that the truth!
Original post by Unistudent77
I agree there is ambiguity with this 'karma' idea. I concede it may well be optimistic thinking but it's certainly what i hope.
Well I'm not going to say my ideas are much more clear and concise, they aren't. I haven't really presented a clear replacement for "religion" though. However, I think there is a hint of "one step forward, two steps back" in a Karma system - in my opinion. This is what I believe now, but yours is certainly food for thought.
Original post by Unistudent77
If i get into the police post uni, i could join the firearms say and have to kill someone. I'm not fearful of that.
Ultimately, i'll do the best job i can. Protect people, make myself as happy as possible, make as many people as possible happy
Ultimately, i'll do the best job i can. Protect people, make myself as happy as possible, make as many people as possible happy
Well that is very noble
. Good luck with that. What are you studying right now may I ask? and are you enjoying it?Original post by Unistudent77
and then i'll see what happens when i die. I'm not scared.
Erm, once I tried to commit suicide on the rationale of just to see what will happen when I die
... but that's a long story, and I was (am) a weird person. It is very interesting to think about the possibilities. My biggest opinion is that, we just "become" another person... i.e. we go unconscious and "wake up" as a baby in a different person, but I wouldn't try to defend or assert this anywhere. Original post by Unistudent77
I'm on the fence and i'll believe what i want to, since i think the rational arguments are at loggerheads and that is holding a hope of somethimg post death.
Again, fair point.
I accept that. Evolution has destroyed most mainstream religions, certainly they can no longer be taken literally.
Again, fair point.
I accept that. Evolution has destroyed most mainstream religions, certainly they can no longer be taken literally.
Ironically, the existence of religion is one of the biggest "evidence" of the theory of evolution. Religion was vital for people to survive in civilizations 2 millienia ago. The Roman Catholic adopted Christian orthodoxy and propered. Various Islamic Empires (most prominently, the 900 year old Ottoman Empire) adopted Islamic orthodoxy and expanded greatly. One way this could be explained is by Maslow’shierarchy of needs, it gives you a rank of what people will need to survive. It starts with the bottom, and works its way to the top. The base (physiological) has been covered through billions of years of evolution. Then, at the cavemen/hunter-gatherer times (early civilisation), it was mostly safety and some physiological needs (and they had religion too!). Now modern (I say modern in a very loose sense of the world), people had a safety problem, but also a love/esteem problem. Collectivist mass-organised religion was required to meet those particularl needs, otherwise society would have collapsed. You get the idea.
Original post by Unistudent77
However, imo, the root cause is a huge problem. It's an issue i don't think we will ever properly understand and one which pushes me towards a creator, certainly makes me 50/50 anyway.
"What a man can be, he must be." Abraham Maslow
Original post by Unistudent77
Science is very black and white, which is great. However, i think there is definitely some grey with this issue.
Many people report spiritual experiences, prayers being answered and such like.
Is that real evidence? No. Does it make the picture less clear? Imo, despite not experiencing any 'spiritual' experiences, it does.
Many people report spiritual experiences, prayers being answered and such like.
Is that real evidence? No. Does it make the picture less clear? Imo, despite not experiencing any 'spiritual' experiences, it does.
I made a post about why scientific empiricism and "testimonies"/spiritual experience cannot be compared earlier in this thread... It may not be a strong argument, but I think it is something. It is post 432
http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/showthread.php?t=3928395&page=22&highlight=&p=63193211#post63193211
Original post by frankieboy
Careful. You'll invite the stock religious comeback of "Ah but God exists outside of science" etc. etc.
But then this god has to clearly interfere and micromanage everything in the world, and will also give directions of what is natural and what is not (for e.g. regarding homosexuality) and then proceed to judge us for it. Some religions claim that all science is miraculously written in a book a a millennium ago but this god exist outside of science
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UUz-hTns-1o
"Who said the west has the right science, we have our own Islamic Science", someone said this to Pervez Hoodbhoy.
As someone who is intrigued by the complexity of the scientific world but also firmly believes in the existence of a Supreme being, I have always intertwined science and religion. Surely things would start to make a lot more sense when God and science come together, no?
Take the word 'universe' for example; literally meaning, 'one spoken phrase'. If we relate this to the Bible (God's Word), to bring the universe into existence he spoke, "let there be light" - and there was light. To introduce science, let's look at the Big Bang Theory. Nature doesn't jump. Darwin said this himself. Therefore it would make sense, taking biblical terms into account, that this sudden explosion of light was created by a greater power? Who's to say?
I love so many aspects of the two, but drawing them together makes everything so much more interesting!
Feel free to share your thoughts btw, I'm open.
Take the word 'universe' for example; literally meaning, 'one spoken phrase'. If we relate this to the Bible (God's Word), to bring the universe into existence he spoke, "let there be light" - and there was light. To introduce science, let's look at the Big Bang Theory. Nature doesn't jump. Darwin said this himself. Therefore it would make sense, taking biblical terms into account, that this sudden explosion of light was created by a greater power? Who's to say?
I love so many aspects of the two, but drawing them together makes everything so much more interesting!
Feel free to share your thoughts btw, I'm open.
Original post by magoo18
. Nature doesn't jump.
You have obviously never come across an earthquake, a volcano, a meteor strike, an avalanche or lightning.
Original post by Good bloke
You have obviously never come across an earthquake, a volcano, a meteor strike, an avalanche or lightning.
Well take earthquakes and volcanoes, they don't just happen at an instant for the sake of it... There's a huge build up of pressure that could have been accumulating for a long period of time. It takes time in itself for the plates beneath the Earth's surface to move. And on that, at 2.5cm per year - 25km in a million years, it's not exactly sudden. You know?
Original post by magoo18
Well take earthquakes and volcanoes, they don't just happen at an instant for the sake of it... There's a huge build up of pressure that could have been accumulating for a long period of time. It takes time in itself for the plates beneath the Earth's surface to move. And on that, at 2.5cm per year - 25km in a million years, it's not exactly sudden. You know?
Lightning?
Why do atheists disrespect other people's beliefs but almost always most of them want to be respected for theirs without question. I'm just saying in general that's how atheists come across as and slightly arrogant too.. But it's not to say all are like this. Just curious. By the way when I say disrespect I mean when they keep on strongly expressing that everyone who follows or believes a religion they think they are under some sort of brainwash and is following mindlessly. And even in this thread I found it inconsiderate to call a persons beliefs a disalussionment and that all should 'awake' from some sort of blindness. I think the world would be a boring place if we all believed the same thing to be honest.
Original post by Good bloke
Lightning?
In one respect I would agree with you, in that there is a sudden release of electrostatic discharge. However, for this to occur, there must be an accumulation of electric charges - which takes time. Most storm clouds form within an hour, again, not exactly sudden.
Original post by Wafaas
Why do atheists disrespect other people's beliefs but almost always most of them want to be respected for theirs without question. I'm just saying in general that's how atheists come across as and slightly arrogant too.. But it's not to say all are like this. Just curious. By the way when I say disrespect I mean when they keep on strongly expressing that everyone who follows or believes a religion they think they are under some sort of brainwash and is following mindlessly. And even in this thread I found it inconsiderate to call a persons beliefs a disalussionment and that all should 'awake' from some sort of blindness. I think the world would be a boring place if we all believed the same thing to be honest.
Anger, disappointment, and frustration. As an atheist those are my guesses. Can't speak for anyone else though.
Original post by Wafaas
I think the world would be a boring place if we all believed the same thing to be honest.
Depends how interesting the same thing you believe in is, I guess.
Original post by Wafaas
I think the world would be a boring place if we all believed the same thing to be honest.
On the contrary, if we all believed that we have a right to kill anyone we meet, for any reason and without warning and without repercussions, the world would be anything but boring.
Didn't get a specific/direct answer to my question... Ok but, I'm still confused about it. Like I can to some extent understand atheists but I don't see why they have to claim religion(s) are a complete illusion. To me personally atheism doesn't make sense. (Not asking for anyone to explain or convince me as I strongly believe in my faith) but yeah ok... Thanks for your civil responses.
Man I love this thread.
Okay. Is the multiverse theory and the theory that the universe came from nothing the only logical theories of the origin of the universe (in non-religious views of course)?
Okay. Is the multiverse theory and the theory that the universe came from nothing the only logical theories of the origin of the universe (in non-religious views of course)?
Original post by Good bloke
On the contrary, if we all believed that we have a right to kill anyone we meet, for any reason and without warning and without repercussions, the world would be anything but boring.
In saying that, if it was viewed worldwide that you could kill anyone you met, and every single person accepted it, then it wouldn't be of shock to anyone if you killed someone. So surely then, it would be boring?
Original post by magoo18
As someone who is intrigued by the complexity of the scientific world but also firmly believes in the existence of a Supreme being, I have always intertwined science and religion. Surely things would start to make a lot more sense when God and science come together, no?
Take the word 'universe' for example; literally meaning, 'one spoken phrase'. If we relate this to the Bible (God's Word), to bring the universe into existence he spoke, "let there be light" - and there was light. To introduce science, let's look at the Big Bang Theory. Nature doesn't jump. Darwin said this himself. Therefore it would make sense, taking biblical terms into account, that this sudden explosion of light was created by a greater power? Who's to say?
I love so many aspects of the two, but drawing them together makes everything so much more interesting!
Feel free to share your thoughts btw, I'm open.
Take the word 'universe' for example; literally meaning, 'one spoken phrase'. If we relate this to the Bible (God's Word), to bring the universe into existence he spoke, "let there be light" - and there was light. To introduce science, let's look at the Big Bang Theory. Nature doesn't jump. Darwin said this himself. Therefore it would make sense, taking biblical terms into account, that this sudden explosion of light was created by a greater power? Who's to say?
I love so many aspects of the two, but drawing them together makes everything so much more interesting!
Feel free to share your thoughts btw, I'm open.
I don't mean to be rude or anything (I apologise if I am) but my friend, I hope you haven't forgotten what the Supreme book actually says?
Genesis 1:1 "In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth"
Then I believe some stuff about darkness.
THEN it says in Genesis 1:3 "And God said,*“Let there be light,”*
Let also forget what this light was said to be ( "day" and "night" ) in Genesis 1:5 and take your interpretation of light
So the earth came before the "light"?
The Big Bang was not an explosion (a misleading title), it was more like an expansion from quantum state of singularity. Besides early universe was way too hot for any sort of particles to exist (and in the state that we know today), there was no evidence of photons or anything that could emit light (or EM waves) as far as I'm aware. Furthermore, it is thought that the inflation of space happened faster the speed of light, so it's impossible for it to be literally an explosion of light. "explosion of light" wasn't really an "explosion" nor "light".
It doesn't make more sense, it raises more questions than it answers. Like who or what is god, why is god god, what makes him god, who created god, how did god create us and why, what process did he use, can god interfere with nature, how can he do that, can we measure his effect (in terms of a force) etc. Occam's razor cuts through all that.
Why is there one "greater power", could he not create other "greater powers"?
"Nature doesn't jump" except this is violated in quantum mechanics principles.
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