Ex Muslim AMA

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How old was Romeo though?

The problem is that if the prophet did it, it's acceptable for people to do it now. You can't just say it's paedophila now but it's okay 1400 years ago. If religion is timeless, you can't justify things with "it was normal back then". You know what I mean?

No I don't...

Who does that now anyway? I am not saying its paedophilia before but okay because it was long time ago.

Who does that now? And I am sure it's not just Muslims even if it is but I haven't heard of this before.

Reply 181

Jeff548

Original post by Plantagenet Crown

This comparison is void because no one follows Romeo and Juliet and says that they are perfect example for all time, try again.

*facepalm

When did I say people follow it? I said no one has a problem with it...

The example doesn't need to be identical, the basics and foundations of the idea is the same

Reply 182

Jeff548

Original post by Kiytt

People don't perceive Shakespeare as word of God and dictate their life by it accordingly.

Again, I know this.

If you pay attention to the basic idea, rather than the literal meaning or looking for an identical example, it is similar as it shows that people only have a problem with Islam.

Like never have I ever witnessed, or even heard of the amount of hate Islam gets compared to all the other religions.

The world nowadays...

Reply 183

Mjcal1

Original post by Jeff548

People still marry children today. Search it up on google and you'll find plenty of examples. If you believe everything the prophet did was right, then you also believe marrying a 10 year old is also right.

Reply 184

Kiytt

Original post by Jeff548

It's a flawed analogy. It does not support your argument whatsoever. Social norms changing is an obvious fact; nobody is denying that.

People have a problem with Islam and not Shakespeare because people are regarding a text written in that context as applicable to today. Nobody thinks the grotesque acts in Shakespeare plays are acceptable in modern society. Why would anyone be outraged at the context of Shakespeare when it's a fictional depiction? Such an idiotic comparison.

Islam gets "hate" because it's a religion which self-professes to be "perfect" and "a religion of peace", despite the dogma disproving both of these rhetorics. And in an attempt to sidestep this, the blame is attributed to followers in order to protect the dogma from any perceived fault. It's absolutely nothing but damage control.

You witness copious amounts of hatred towards it since, more than any other religion on the world stage as of now, Islam is the one fueling most conflict. Terrorism statistics speak for themselves.

Reply 185

Plantagenet Crown

Original post by Jeff548

*facepalm

When did I say people follow it? I said no one has a problem with it...

The example doesn't need to be identical, the basics and foundations of the idea is the same

It's not though because the point is that Muhammad is seen as the perfect example for all time so his actions cannot be historically contexualised, two completely different scenarios.

Reply 186

carlskep

Original post by yasminkattan

However what's certain is that Aisha had gone through puberty before the marriage was consummated, meaning she was physically ready.

Nope, scholars acknowledged that she was immature and had not even gone through puberty.

Narrated 'Aisha: I used to play with the dolls in the presence of the Prophet, and my girl friends also used to play with me. When Allah's Apostle used to enter (my dwelling place) they used to hide themselves, but the Prophet would call them to join and play with me. (The playing with the dolls and similar images is forbidden, but it was allowed for 'Aisha at that time, as she was a little girl, not yet reached the age of puberty.) (Fateh-al-Bari page 143, Vol.13)
Sahih Bukhari 8.73.151

Narrated Aisha: (the wife of the Prophet):… On that Allah's Apostle called Buraira and said, 'O Buraira. Did you ever see anything which roused your suspicions about her?' Buraira said, 'No, by Allah Who has sent you with the Truth, I have never seen in her anything faulty except that she is a girl of immature age, who sometimes sleeps and leaves the dough for the goats to eat.'… I was a young girl and did not have much knowledge of the Quran
Sahih Bukhari 3.48.829

And the Quran allows marriage to little girls who have not gone through puberty:

Marrying a young girl before she reaches the age of adolescence is permitted in sharee’ah; indeed it was narrated that there was scholarly consensus on this point.

(a) Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“And those of your women as have passed the age of monthly courses, for them the ‘Iddah (prescribed period), if you have doubt (about their periods), is three months; and for those who have no courses [(i.e. they are still immature) their ‘Iddah (prescribed period) is three months likewise”

[al-Talaaq 65:4]

In this verse we see that Allaah has made the ‘iddah in the case of divorce of a girl who does not have periods – because she is young and has not yet reached puberty – three months. This clearly indicates that Allaah has made this a valid marriage.

https://islamqa.info/en/22442

Reply 187

champ_mc99

Original post by Plantagenet Crown

The peg thing is an error.

Considering it's his sole interpretation and how people are arguing against it doesn't tell me he can confirm it actually is.

Reply 188

Plantagenet Crown

Original post by champ_mc99

Considering it's his sole interpretation and how people are arguing against it doesn't tell me he can confirm it actually is.

I would assume it goes against basic geology and what we know about tectonic plates.

Reply 189

champ_mc99

Original post by Plantagenet Crown

I would assume it goes against basic geology and what we know about tectonic plates.

I wouldn't assume that. :tongue:

What made you leave?

Original post by Hydeman

Even more horrifying considering that, if I remember rightly, yasminkattan's situation is the diametric opposite of OP's: she's a convert to Islam who hasn't told her parents about her conversion. It somewhat alarms me that somebody who's had the benefits of a modern, Western education and, as far as I know, no parental brainwashing, can indulge in apologetics of this kind.

Oh you know so much about me.

I'm not brainwashed. But I'm going to stop here because I don't need to explain myself to anyone.

Reply 192

Khadijah489

Do you regret taking this big step in leaving Islam? Also, have you thought about how your parents are going to react when they find out?

Reply 193

troubadour.

Original post by yasminkattan

Oh you know so much about me.

I didn't claim that I did. I simply recalled reading one or more posts by you in which you disclosed this.

I'm not brainwashed.

Not parentally anyway (I hope -- I've no idea whether you were 'raised' in a different religion or not).

But I'm going to stop here because I don't need to explain myself to anyone.

Sure, whatever. :dontknow:

You got involved in an argument about Islam of your own volition and in so doing showed that you understand it far less well than you'd like to think, so it's not a huge surprise that you're now feigning nonchalance.

(edited 8 years ago)

Reply 194

username1788167

Original post by Kiytt

At least indoctrination somewhat rationalises someone's conviction in their religious beliefs. Believing solely on your own accord is inexplicable.

Believing in a religion on your own accord is inexplicable?

Reply 195

username1788167

Original post by Hydeman

I didn't claim that I did. I simply recalled reading one or more posts by you in which you disclosed this.

Not parentally anyway (I hope -- I've no idea whether you were 'raised' in a different religion or not).

Sure, whatever. :dontknow:

You got involved in an argument about Islam of your own volition and lost, so it's not a huge surprise that you're now feigning nonchalance.

I didn't "lose" anything, I'd just rather not spend time arguing over this. You believe in one thing whilst I believe in another, so it could go on for a very long time and I would rather be the one that ends it. Besides, in Islam we should stay away from these types of arguments, especially when they lead to the other person saying something offensive about Islam and our Prophet.

Reply 196

Kiytt

Original post by yasminkattan

Believing in a religion on your own accord is inexplicable?

Refer to:

Original post by Kiytt

Obviously context is essential, but from my perspective: if someone was scientifically educated, not home-schooled, and had no family members following a religion, yet had unwavering conviction in their religious beliefs, I'd fail to comprehend how one could maintain those beliefs—aside from perhaps a desperate need for purpose and comfort of an afterlife.

Reply 197

troubadour.

Original post by yasminkattan

I didn't "lose" anything

False.

I'd just rather not spend time arguing over this.

Well, you did come to this thread of your own accord, so I think I can be forgiven for thinking that that's insincere.

You believe in one thing whilst I believe in another, so it could go on for a very long time and I would rather be the one that ends it.

Fair enough.

Besides, in Islam we should stay away from these types of arguments, especially when they lead to the other person saying something offensive about Islam and our Prophet.

Do you ever wonder about the motives of ideologies and people that forbid you from questioning them or allowing yourself to be in the company of others who do so? :moon:

Reply 198

username1788167

Original post by Hydeman

False.

Well, you did come to this thread of your own accord, so I think I can be forgiven for thinking that that's insincere.

Fair enough.

Do you ever wonder about the motives of ideologies and people that forbid you from questioning them or allowing yourself to be in the company of others who do so? :moon:

Suggesting that the Prophet (saw) raped Aisha, or calling him a pedophile, is not the same. I don't want to be in the company of someone who would do that, it's upsetting and it would mean I'm condoning it.

Reply 199

Snake_God

Original post by ExMooseLDN

Hello,
I'm an 18 year old ex-muslim atheist studying a2's in London, AMA

What do you think about the fact the Quran fails to talk about important things such as parallel dimensions and the multiverse when it is supposedly the complete and perfect book? Instead it focuses on some insignificant goings on in the desert.

Also If god were to choose a time to spread his message why didnt he choose now, when we have communication at the click of a button instead of back in abrahamic times when only a tiny fraction of the population could hear the 'divine' message?