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Original post by Frank Underwood
I can't believe I have to spell this out to you people.
Favourable opinion does not mean they are terrorists or ISIS supporters.
Favourable opinion does not mean they are terrorists or ISIS supporters.
you people your mask is slipping
Original post by BaconandSauce
That's from the same set of surveys you are currently trying to dismiss
That's the point, I implied it in my OP. I guess you didn't read that.
Original post by Frank Underwood
You're being an idiot for thinking that favourable opinion = ISIS supporter
Not to mention that this was a sampled survey, extrapolating the statistics to the entire population is mathematically stupid.
Not to mention that this was a sampled survey, extrapolating the statistics to the entire population is mathematically stupid.
1) A favourable opinion doesn't guarantee them to be an ISIS supporter but it guarantees they hold extremist views.
2) Extrapolating statistics to the entire is mathematically stupid yet Pew Research are a professional polling organisation. I think I trust their word a lot more than yours. Obviously, there will be a margin of error, but from a reliable company like Pew Research, I'd say this gives an accurate representation each population.
Original post by NickLCFC
1) A favourable opinion doesn't guarantee them to be an ISIS supporter but it guarantees they hold extremist views.
2) Extrapolating statistics to the entire is mathematically stupid yet Pew Research are a professional polling organisation. I think I trust their word a lot more than yours. Obviously, there will be a margin of error, but from a reliable company like Pew Research, I'd say this gives an accurate representation each population.
2) Extrapolating statistics to the entire is mathematically stupid yet Pew Research are a professional polling organisation. I think I trust their word a lot more than yours. Obviously, there will be a margin of error, but from a reliable company like Pew Research, I'd say this gives an accurate representation each population.
Nope, it does not guarantee they have extremist views. The only thing you can infer from this is that their opinion of ISIS is not negative, and I don't blame them given that the USA has caused many problems in the Middle East.
And there is a massive margin of error, I can't see how many people were actually interviewed by this poll.
Original post by Frank Underwood
Extremism is fine as long as it isn't acted upon.
Frank are you a moslam?
Original post by William Pitt
What does that mean? : )
B: But I'm a Scotsman and I put sugar in my porridge.
A: No True Scotsman puts sugar in his porridge
It's a means of dismissing evidence that refutes you argument.
Original post by BaconandSauce
Frank are you a moslam?
No I am atheist. I believe that the world would be a better place tomorrow if every single religion disappeared.
But given that it is never going to happen, or at least not overnight, it's better to accept what we have. And what we have is a tiny fraction of Muslims who are terrorists, and a majority who are peaceful people.
Have you even been to a majorly Muslim country? I've been to Indonesia, Morocco, Syria (before the conflict, obviously) and trust me, they are great people. It's just annoying that terrorist attacks make dumb people say dumber things.
Original post by Frank Underwood
So what? Extremism is fine as long as it isn't acted upon. We have extremist right-wing people in the UK who will never ever act out their views in the forms of attacks.
Well hold on there. Someone pages back said that we have an understanding of *how* these people become terrorists.
Fundamental to the journey towards blowing yourself up is an environment that breeds extremists views. Actions *follow* views. If we want to stop terrorism, we have too actually acknowledges the reality of extreme muslims views, both in the middle east and Europe. Otherwise your just chasing groups before they make the bombs and shoot the guns.
Posted from TSR Mobile
Original post by NickLCFC
Apart from the small issue that it was Muslims that carried out the terror attack.
.
.
Spoiler
Yes no doubt that the individuals carrying out the terrorist attack hid behind the label "Muslim". But I can't just go and say that that there is a link between rape and Catholicism because Myra Hindley and Ian Brady were mass rapists and murderers.
Don't label an act as "Islamic" because of an action of a particular group who sees themselves as Muslim. It's upsetting, because it's the incorrect perception.
Muslims follow the sunnah of the Prophet Muhammed who enlisted murder as the second deadly sins. And what happened In Brussels today was purely murder, the killers may try to justify it as Jihad but all it shows is that they are cowards massacring innocent human beings, due to their lack of knowledge lack of understanding and sheer cruelty. I'm Muslim and I don't intend to apologise for Islam or apologise for the people that have killed today, but as a Muslim I am truly heartbroken that others label these acts as Islamic and am also deeply saddened for those effected in any acts of terrorism both due to government agenda or the false/ insane perception of religion.
Peace and my utmost love
NK
Original post by 999tigger
Safer than being in a country undergoing civl war, so its relative. Plenty of child expo=loitation going on n the camps.
Perhps some leave becayse they are single and can, some have lost their families, some move with their fmailies and others promise to send for them.
Undoubtably many of the asylum seekers are economic migrants, about 2/3 of them. I dont believe anyone has said they are all genuine cases. I cnat blame them for wnating a better life.
What is needed is fast processing so the non genuine refugees are returned as quickly as possible.
Perhps some leave becayse they are single and can, some have lost their families, some move with their fmailies and others promise to send for them.
Undoubtably many of the asylum seekers are economic migrants, about 2/3 of them. I dont believe anyone has said they are all genuine cases. I cnat blame them for wnating a better life.
What is needed is fast processing so the non genuine refugees are returned as quickly as possible.
It seems we largely agree then.
Posted from TSR Mobile
Original post by Frank Underwood
Nope, it does not guarantee they have extremist views. The only thing you can infer from this is that their opinion of ISIS is not negative, and I don't blame them given that the USA has caused many problems in the Middle East.
And there is a massive margin of error, I can't see how many people were actually interviewed by this poll.
And there is a massive margin of error, I can't see how many people were actually interviewed by this poll.
1) No, you can infer that their opinion of ISIS is FAVOURABLE. If their opinion was 'not negative' they could have chosen the 'dont know' option. I think it's quite amusing that you are literally trying to justify people supporting ISIS.
2) Once again, Pew Research are a respected, reliable and professional polling organisation. The margin of error won't be that small.
Feel free to read up on their methodology.
http://www.pewglobal.org/international-survey-methodology/?year_select=2015
On that link it will tell also tell you the margin of error for each country they carried out polls for in the their Spring 2015 surveys. They all have around a 3.0-5.0% margin of error. (E.g. polls in Indonesia have a 4.0& margin of error).
(edited 8 years ago)
Original post by NK18444
Yes no doubt that the individuals carrying out the terrorist attack hid behind the label "Muslim". But I can't just go and say that that there is a link between rape and Catholicism because Myra Hindley and Ian Brady were mass rapists and murderers.
Don't label an act as "Islamic" because of an action of a particular group who sees themselves as Muslim. It's upsetting, because it's the incorrect perception.
Muslims follow the sunnah of the Prophet Muhammed who enlisted murder as the second deadly sins. And what happened In Brussels today was purely murder, the killers may try to justify it as Jihad but all it shows is that they are cowards massacring innocent human beings, due to their lack of knowledge lack of understanding and sheer cruelty. I'm Muslim and I don't intend to apologise for Islam or apologise for the people that have killed today, but as a Muslim I am truly heartbroken that others label these acts as Islamic and am also deeply saddened for those effected in any acts of terrorism both due to government agenda or the false/ insane perception of religion.
Peace and my utmost love
NK
Don't label an act as "Islamic" because of an action of a particular group who sees themselves as Muslim. It's upsetting, because it's the incorrect perception.
Muslims follow the sunnah of the Prophet Muhammed who enlisted murder as the second deadly sins. And what happened In Brussels today was purely murder, the killers may try to justify it as Jihad but all it shows is that they are cowards massacring innocent human beings, due to their lack of knowledge lack of understanding and sheer cruelty. I'm Muslim and I don't intend to apologise for Islam or apologise for the people that have killed today, but as a Muslim I am truly heartbroken that others label these acts as Islamic and am also deeply saddened for those effected in any acts of terrorism both due to government agenda or the false/ insane perception of religion.
Peace and my utmost love
NK
It doesn't matter whether we call them that, the point is they call themselves that. They believe they are acting according to some plan. They believe they're right to do so.
Arguing about whether they're really Muslims or not is entirely pointless.
We can and will call them cold blooded murderers, but they believe they're justified.
Until that belief in whatever form is eradicated then these kinds of attacks will continue.
Original post by Frank Underwood
Nope, it does not guarantee they have extremist views. The only thing you can infer from this is that their opinion of ISIS is not negative, and I don't blame them given that the USA has caused many problems in the Middle East.
And there is a massive margin of error, I can't see how many people were actually interviewed by this poll.
And there is a massive margin of error, I can't see how many people were actually interviewed by this poll.
No. It informs us more than the views aren't negative. It informs us they are favourable towards ISIS.
Though you conveniently been allowed to frame the whole conversation on how question. The Pew has many, clearer cases of extreme views on terrorist attacks etc.
Posted from TSR Mobile
Original post by Slipandsquirm
No idea.Nobody sygests they all fit the crieria for being gebyube refugees, but there large numbers fleeing syria and other countries due to conflict. We have signed obligations that promise to help such people.
Original post by NickLCFC
1) No, you can infer that their opinion of ISIS is FAVOURABLE. If their opinion was 'not negative' they could have chosen the 'dont know' option. I think it's quite amusing that you are literally trying to justify people supporting ISIS.
2) Once again, Pew Research are a respected, reliable and professional polling organisation. The margin of error won't be that small.
Feel free to read up on their methodology.
http://www.pewglobal.org/international-survey-methodology/?year_select=2015
On that link it will tell also tell you the margin of error for each country they carried out polls for in the their Spring 2015 surveys. They all have around a 3.0-5.0% margin of error. (E.g. polls in Indonesia have a 4.0& margin of error).
2) Once again, Pew Research are a respected, reliable and professional polling organisation. The margin of error won't be that small.
Feel free to read up on their methodology.
http://www.pewglobal.org/international-survey-methodology/?year_select=2015
On that link it will tell also tell you the margin of error for each country they carried out polls for in the their Spring 2015 surveys. They all have around a 3.0-5.0% margin of error. (E.g. polls in Indonesia have a 4.0& margin of error).
It's amusing that you're seriously telling me that we should blame all Muslims for the problems caused by an extremely small percentile of them.
Original post by Slipandsquirm
No. It informs us more than the views aren't negative. It informs us they are favourable towards ISIS.
Though you conveniently been allowed to frame the whole conversation on how question. The Pew has many, clearer cases of extreme views on terrorist attacks etc.
Posted from TSR Mobile
Though you conveniently been allowed to frame the whole conversation on how question. The Pew has many, clearer cases of extreme views on terrorist attacks etc.
Posted from TSR Mobile
Yeah it really doesn't.
Original post by NickLCFC
1) No, you can infer that their opinion of ISIS is FAVOURABLE. If their opinion was 'not negative' they could have chosen the 'dont know' option. I think it's quite amusing that you are literally trying to justify people supporting ISIS.
2) Once again, Pew Research are a respected, reliable and professional polling organisation. The margin of error won't be that small.
Feel free to read up on their methodology.
http://www.pewglobal.org/international-survey-methodology/?year_select=2015
On that link it will tell also tell you the margin of error for each country they carried out polls for in the their Spring 2015 surveys. They all have around a 3.0-5.0% margin of error. (E.g. polls in Indonesia have a 4.0& margin of error).
2) Once again, Pew Research are a respected, reliable and professional polling organisation. The margin of error won't be that small.
Feel free to read up on their methodology.
http://www.pewglobal.org/international-survey-methodology/?year_select=2015
On that link it will tell also tell you the margin of error for each country they carried out polls for in the their Spring 2015 surveys. They all have around a 3.0-5.0% margin of error. (E.g. polls in Indonesia have a 4.0& margin of error).
It's quite good he's resisting the evidence. It shows tell strength of the evidence, when his objections are answered.
Posted from TSR Mobile
Original post by Frank Underwood
It's amusing that you're seriously telling me that we should blame all Muslims for the problems caused by an extremely small percentile of them.
It's amusing that you are just ignoring evidence presented right before your eyes. You need to be more open minded. Especially when you're willing to go as far as defending people's favourable opinions of ISIS.
As for apparently telling you 'we should blame all Muslims for the problem'... when did I imply anything along those lines? I was simply putting across the fact that extremist beliefs among Muslims aren't as rare as you were making out.
Original post by Everglow
Perhaps not, but there's certainly something Islamist about this one.
This was true then, and it's true now.
This was true then, and it's true now.
I do not oppose free speech, it is vital for the the most interesting and challenging debates and agree that is should not be the reason for war or violence.
I don't however always agree with Salman Rushdie where religious scripture is ridiculed. I have to say "satanic verses" was not ever a favorite but certainly tact is the knack of making a point without making an enemy.
Peace and love
NK
Original post by NickLCFC
It's amusing that you are just ignoring evidence presented right before your eyes. You need to be more open minded. Especially when you're willing to go as far as defending people's favourable opinions of ISIS.
As for apparently telling you 'we should blame all Muslims for the problem'... when did I imply anything along those lines? I was simply putting across the fact that extremist beliefs among Muslims aren't as rare as you were making out.
As for apparently telling you 'we should blame all Muslims for the problem'... when did I imply anything along those lines? I was simply putting across the fact that extremist beliefs among Muslims aren't as rare as you were making out.
Yes, because that's not evidence. It's a survey which shows that a very small percentage Muslims have favourable views towards ISIS.
They are not the terrorists, they are merely people in various countries across the world who like them. That does not make them terrorists, furthermore whether or not that article claims that however many million people are in favour of ISIS, 1.5 billion - that number DON'T support ISIS.
We cannot attack 1.5 billion Muslims because a bunch of them go on a terror attack.
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