Two explosions at Brussels Airport, several injured

IS are setting up a violent caliphate which is perfectly in keeping with islam as its exactly what the first caliphs did - you refused to comment on all my points hence you are still ignorant to that and various other facts.

Clearly many mistakes have been made. Yet it's worth noting that the US, which has always maintained strict and well enforced immigration controls over the period you talk about has also suffered home grown Jihadi terror and even rigidly controlled totalitarian countries like China have. So it clearly is quite a problem and simplistic solutions or just blaming it on uncontrolled immigration for politically motivated reasons doesn't cut it. We have the migrant populations we have and the question is what to do next, not wishful thinking about reversing it.

I'm not sure why you're bringing Christianity into this.

ISIS purports a warped version of Islam which very few people follow, no metaphor or story about Christianity is going to change that.

Oh I'm the one 'refusing to comment on your points?'

Let me make this clear to you.

I proved to you that ISIS follows a warped version of Islam, and your response is simply "no they don't"

I think we're done here, you've proven yourself to be incompetent as discussing things.

I will try to be as clear as possible.

How could one, as a non-Christian, decide which interpretation of Christianity is correct ?

how could I, as an "ignorant Kuffar", decide which interpretation of Islam is correct ?

we cannot : as we know, truth is not a majority/minority issue. And we lack the cultural, historical, linguistic tools to pursue the issue to any significant depth

so, as far as the "Kuffar" are concerned, we will simply assist "moderate" Muslims in eliminating the murderous Jihadis : and as to theological correctness, we will leave it to Muslims themselves to sort it out with fellow "true believers", on the basis of whatever "holy texts" (and their interpretations) are deemed as being appropriate

best

you are actually doing a great job in demosntrating why IS and other islamist groups exist in the muslim community, you dont listen to facts, you only want to try and argue your own agenda which makes you look even more ridicuous. ive now replied to you 3 times as to IS's motives, which is the islamic motive to violently establish a caliphate, so essentially jsut a land grab. in the same way all other islamic groups al shabab, boko haram, hamas all strive for a violent land grab in their own regions. youve not replied to these facts or the the 5 others posted to you you 10 mins ago

Because the Quran is very clear in what it says, and we have Muslims worldwide who concur that ISIS does not represent Islam.

once again : please tell us which interpretation of Christianity you consider is correct.

As to your quotes : try discussing with a supporter of terrorist attacks in Western countries (I have, in the past, on some extremist forums)

I can assure you that, for every quote produced from Quran/hadith, they will come up with some other quote, and we will go round and round endlessly

rather : in the end, I would be told that I am an ignorant kaffir, that I don't know Arabic, that I have no clue about Islam and that, in any case "Allah guides whom he wills and leads other astray etc etc"

so: it is far, far from clear which of the (next to infinite) streams in Islam is correct and which isn't

so, just like you will be unable to decide which version of Christianity is correct, we will not be able to tell which version of Islam is correct

however, we will gladly support "moderate" Islam (for purely egoistic reasons)

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So basically, you can't accept the fact that the Quran condemns killing..

wrong

the Quran does not condemn killing per se.

E.g. it clearly states that those who spread corruption in the land ("fasad" should be killed. So, what does exactly qualify as "corruption in the land" ?

and there you start. There is one opinion, and then another opinion, and then a next one etc etc before you even know it, you are engulfed in discussing ancient texts, medieval theologians etc etc

Good luck in reaching an universal agreement on that.

Best

Do me a favour and don't butt into any further discussions I have to make.

I don't want to talk to someone who denies the truth when it is laid out right before them

the truth :

The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger, and strive with might and main for mischief through the land is: execution, or crucifixion, or the cutting off of hands and feet from opposite sides, or exile from the land : that is their disgrace in this world, and a heavy punishment is theirs in the Hereafter. – Quran 5:33

"fasad" is usually translated as "mischief" or "corruption". It can be punished in the way outlined above

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You are pulling out quotes from the Quran with no background knowledge.

I honestly can't believe you're defending ISIS here.

and there we are, as I predicted.

"Oh, You are just a misguided, ignorant kaffir, taking things out of context, no background knowledge etc etc. " this is the usual message I get when I discuss with Muslims about Islamic doctrine

You are right on schedule, mate. You only missed the "you don't know Arabic" (probably, because you don't know Arabic yourself . In fact, I do know some "basic" Arabic)
how disingenuous on your part

how could you possibly misconstrue my posts to that ridiculous extent ?

what I am telling you (once again) is this : Quranic verses can be interpreted in many different ways. It is impossible for us, in particular for us non-Muslims, to decide which is the correct one.

As far as I am concerned, your interpretation is just as valid as the one produced by ISIS. However, I also maintain that ISIS are just a band of criminals, and I will gladly support you in putting them behind bars.

But this has nothing to do with the correct interpretation of Quran 5:33. An issue which could be discussed for years (and which has, in fact been discussed for centuries)

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You are pulling out quotes from the Quran with no background knowledge.

Read this

I honestly can't believe you're defending ISIS here.

ISIS do not follow the same version of Islam that 1.5 billion do worldwide.


How many different ways can you deny it in 2 hours?

ISIS do not follow the same version of Islam that 1.5 billion do worldwide.

How many different ways can you deny it in 2 hours?

He has never denied this point. I'm sure mariachi would be the first person to concede that...

You have completely missed his point

you really believe that "truth" has something to do with statistics ?

strange

in any case, exactly how many Muslims think that ISIS is right ? or, even just "partially" right ? or even just about Quran 5:33 ?

who could answer that question ?

He has never denied this point. I'm sure mariachi would be the first person to concede that...

You have completely missed his point