Can we all reflect on all the good things Islam does for the world?
Scroll to see replies
Original post by BeastOfSyracuse
It's that kind of victimhood mindset that leads people down the path towards terrorism.
It's entirely natural that people pay more attention to events that take place closer to them or in countries to which they have a stronger connection. It has nothing to do with covert racism or Islamophobia, everything to do with the way the media market works and people's natural interests.
It seems like every time there is a heinous terrorist attack in the West, Islamists and their fellow travellers make yet another opportunity to turn it around and make it all about them
It's entirely natural that people pay more attention to events that take place closer to them or in countries to which they have a stronger connection. It has nothing to do with covert racism or Islamophobia, everything to do with the way the media market works and people's natural interests.
It seems like every time there is a heinous terrorist attack in the West, Islamists and their fellow travellers make yet another opportunity to turn it around and make it all about them
I find these kinds of statements absolutely shocking.
There is no reason whatsoever why anyone should value one religion, or race, or nationality over another. A life is a life and, no matter what you think, we should not care less about Muslims or Arabs dying than we do about Christians and Europeans.
When Tunisia (a muslim country) was attacked there was a huge amount of support for the victims, which is of course a good thing, but that was only because the victims were English/Europeans in a Muslim country. Yet when other muslim nations have to suffer through the same awful situations, they suffer alone.
It is disgraceful that in this modern era educated people still think in this way. Muslims are not trying to make it all about them - ISIS and other extremist organisations make it about them because it is Muslims countries which have to suffer under their terror. It is our job as an influential, multicultural, liberal nation to provide support for people who have to suffer through these conditions.
Original post by zramazhar
But it's not Islam that's causing all the chaos and destruction in this world. It's the PEOPLE....there are some fools that carry out attacks in the name of God in order to justify it. Islam is a religion of peace. Just because a few people call themselves "Muslims" and carry out attacks doesn't mean that Islam is the cause because Islam is against the killing of innocent people.
I couldn't agree more with this. It's about time other people started realising this
Original post by egypt94
{it) is our job as an influential, multicultural, liberal nation to provide support for people who have to suffer through these conditions.
does not mean we shouldn't support people who are suffering
Original post by zramazhar
Islam is against the killing of innocent people ]
those who "spread mischief in the land" can be crucified, or their limbs cut off on opposite sides, or they can be exiled
so, it all boils down on who exactly is "spreading mischief in the land" and who isn't (we can talk of apostates, adulterers etc etc some other time)
best
Original post by egypt94
I find these kinds of statements absolutely shocking.
There is no reason whatsoever why anyone should value one religion, or race, or nationality over another. A life is a life and, no matter what you think, we should not care less about Muslims or Arabs dying than we do about Christians and Europeans.
There is no reason whatsoever why anyone should value one religion, or race, or nationality over another. A life is a life and, no matter what you think, we should not care less about Muslims or Arabs dying than we do about Christians and Europeans.
Of course all lives are equal. But this is a completely different proposition to saying that it is inherently racist that the media gives more coverage to events that occur closer to them. The news media is a business. The reality is that novelty (i.e. things that happen less frequently) and things that happen closer to the media market in question, are more likely to attract coverage. That is the same everywhere, including in the Middle Eastern media.
When Tunisia (a muslim country) was attacked there was a huge amount of support for the victims, which is of course a good thing, but that was only because the victims were English/Europeans in a Muslim country. Yet when other muslim nations have to suffer through the same awful situations, they suffer alone.
What on earth are you talking about? The West is supporting the Muslim world's campaign against terrorism in the most fundamental way possible; it is providing training, arms, ammunition and air support, and putting its own troops in harms way, to help end the source of those terrorist attacks.
Also, whenever there is a major terrorist attack in the Middle East, Western governments do condemn it and offer assistance to Middle Eastern countries. So clearly they aren't suffering alone. What else are you claiming should be done?
It is disgraceful that in this modern era educated people still think in this way
People don't think that way, it is a figment of your victimhood complex. People don't think, "Oh look, a suicide bombing in Iraq. I'm just going to ignore it because I think Muslims are inferior to Westerners". A suicide bombing in the Middle East gets less coverage because (a) it is a regular occurrence, and (b) because it is more remote.
The Middle Eastern media also pays more attention to things that happen in its region than what is happening in the West. Are you saying they're racist too? Or does this only go one way?
It is our job as an influential, multicultural, liberal nation to provide support for people who have to suffer through these conditions.
And the West is providing support. It is spending billions to help these societies develop the capacity to protect themselves from the terrorists.
(edited 8 years ago)
Original post by BeastOfSyracuse
How many people actually don't know the difference? I'd say very few. It seems like you believe Islam is above criticism
Are they actually facing any persecution? A few isolated instances of discrimination etc is not the same as a widespread societal persecution. If you want to see actual persecution, look at the situation of the Jews in Nazi Germany, or the Armenians in Turkey 100 years ago.
It seems like what's actually happening here is that some Muslims would prefer to take an instance of these terror attacks to make this about what poor little victims they are of the evil kuffar, rather than actually looking honestly at how it is that people in their own communities can hold these disgusting views and go to kill their fellow citizens in suicide bombings.
Are they actually facing any persecution? A few isolated instances of discrimination etc is not the same as a widespread societal persecution. If you want to see actual persecution, look at the situation of the Jews in Nazi Germany, or the Armenians in Turkey 100 years ago.
It seems like what's actually happening here is that some Muslims would prefer to take an instance of these terror attacks to make this about what poor little victims they are of the evil kuffar, rather than actually looking honestly at how it is that people in their own communities can hold these disgusting views and go to kill their fellow citizens in suicide bombings.
Firstly, just read some of the comments on this thread for a start. Plenty of people seem to confuse Islam with terrorism. Whenever anyone brings up a positive aspect of Islam several people jump in with statements about how much destruction terrorism causes. But that is not what Islam is about, and to categorise all Muslims as supporting terrorist regimes is tremendously offensive. Islam is not above criticism, no religion is - but criticism must come from the teaching of the religion itself, not about the implementation of policies in muslim countries. I disagree with some of the awful actions which take place in Saudi Arabia and other middle eastern countries, but that is a national problem not a religious one.
Yes they are facing persecution and to argue that no group can be considered to have been persecuted unless they suffer as much as the Jews did in Nazi Germany is frankly idiotic. The way in which Islam is treated with such suspicion and anger, particularly in the USA, is persecution, there is no other way to describe it.
Finally, Muslims are doing exactly that. Those who live in Iraq and Syria are fighting constantly against the awful regimes which are attempting to take control of the countries. No reasonable and moderate Muslim considers terrorism to be a good thing, and no muslim country is encouraging jihad or terrorist activities. It is not one person's fault that someone else in their community holds radical beliefs and I don't know how you can say it is.
Original post by zramazhar
But it's not Islam that's causing all the chaos and destruction in this world. It's the PEOPLE....there are some fools that carry out attacks in the name of God in order to justify it. Islam is a religion of peace. Just because a few people call themselves "Muslims" and carry out terrorist attacks doesn't mean that Islam is the cause.
Unfortunately I dont believe Islam is a religion of peace anymore, it used to be a long time ago. All this war and destruction in the middle east is caused because of Islam, because of the Muslim people, all these mass assaults and rape attacks that goes on across Europe everyday is the doing of Muslim migrants. Obviously the majority of Muslim people are good people but I dont understand how someone can say that Islam is a religion of peace after everything that has happened.
Original post by KingBradly
I know it's hard at times like this, but can't we all reflect on the good things Islam does for the world?
The greatest tragedy with these attacks is the way Islam and it's adherents are demonized because of them.
The greatest tragedy with these attacks is the way Islam and it's adherents are demonized because of them.
Such as?
(You forgot the list?)
Original post by Daniel9998
Unfortunately I dont believe Islam is a religion of peace anymore, it used to be a long time ago. All this war and destruction in the middle east is caused because of Islam, because of the Muslim people, all these mass assaults and rape attacks that goes on across Europe everyday is the doing of Muslim migrants. Obviously the majority of Muslim people are good people but I dont understand how someone can say that Islam is a religion of peace after everything that has happened.
How can Islam be responsible for the actions of certain individuals? As I said before, Islam cannot be put down because of the actions carried out by some "Muslims".
Original post by BeastOfSyracuse
What on earth are you talking about? The West is supporting the Muslim world's campaign against terrorism in the most fundamental way possible; it is providing training, arms, ammunition and air support, and putting its own troops in harms way, to help end the source of those terrorist attacks.
Also, whenever there is a major terrorist attack in the Middle East, Western governments do condemn it and offer assistance to Middle Eastern countries. So clearly they aren't suffering alone. What else are you claiming should be done?
And the West is providing support. It is spending billions to help these societies develop the capacity to protect themselves from the terrorists.
What on earth are you talking about? The West is supporting the Muslim world's campaign against terrorism in the most fundamental way possible; it is providing training, arms, ammunition and air support, and putting its own troops in harms way, to help end the source of those terrorist attacks.
Also, whenever there is a major terrorist attack in the Middle East, Western governments do condemn it and offer assistance to Middle Eastern countries. So clearly they aren't suffering alone. What else are you claiming should be done?
And the West is providing support. It is spending billions to help these societies develop the capacity to protect themselves from the terrorists.
The problem you're having here is that you're confusing governments with societies. I am entirely supportive of the actions taken by the UK government in helping to combat terrorism.
My issue is the mindset of a society which treats Islam with such suspicion. We are supposed to be talking about the positive aspects of Islam from a societal point of view, this is not about whatever actions western governments are taking.
Original post by Daniel9998
I think everyone should watch this.
Cannot agree with this video more
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=flssY6CRfWM
Cannot agree with this video more
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=flssY6CRfWM
What's the % population of Muslims to non-Muslims in Europe?
He doesn't really provide any info to back up his statements, which rings alarm bells.
Original post by egypt94
I couldn't agree more with this. It's about time other people started realising this
I agree with you completely. Everyone knows about the Brussels Attacks but does anyone know about the bombings that happened in Ankara (Capital of Turkey)? Downing Street raised the Belgian flag but where was this sympathy after Ankara? :'(
Original post by egypt94
You seem to be conflating Islam and Muslims. When people point out that the Quran contains incitement to violence, that its founder was a warlord and slave owner, that these things mean it could be easier to justify suicide bombings, enslavements and so on, that is not saying all Muslims are terrorists. It is saying that Islam as a set of beliefs is flawed.
It seems like you want to take criticism of Islam and make it into some kind of racist bigotry. It is not. And you presumably cannot deny that many Muslims do think in those terms; they believe that if you criticise Islam, you are personally attacking them and must be punished.
Islam is not above criticism, no religion is - but criticism must come from the teaching of the religion itself, not about the implementation of policies in muslim countries.
First, you will find that there are many atheist TSRians (like QE2) who are quite learned in Islam and base their criticisms directly off what the Islamic texts say. Second, you cannot separate out a religion from its real implementation. To do so is to assume there is some inherent, objective version of Islam that Muslims are failing to live up to, rather than it simply being a set of texts that are inherently liable to "misinterpretation", and that many parts of the texts themselves adhere to a backward and violent mindset and thus there are Muslim extremists who can justify their actions based on the texts.
You cannot say they are "wrong" without asserting there is some objectively true version of Islam which they are failing to live up to.
I disagree with some of the awful actions which take place in Saudi Arabia and other middle eastern countries, but that is a national problem not a religious one.
I disagree. Saudi law is directly based on Islam, it has no other codified and precedentiary basis. The punishments they mete out, the laws they impose... these are based on the Quran and the hadiths directly.
Secondly, (as an example) it's no coincidence that the only countries in the world that impose the death penalty for homosexual conduct are Islamic countries. They are all basing their views on a core group of interpretations that pretty much all Muslims throughout history would agree are valid interpretations. If the vast majority of Muslims both now and historically agree on an interpretation, you can't validly claim that actually they are wrong and there is some kind of "true" Islam they are failing to live up to. Islam is what its adherents practice; that is what the religion is, not some idealised version that exists in the minds of Western liberals.
Original post by zramazhar
How can Islam be responsible for the actions of certain individuals? As I said before, Islam cannot be put down because of the actions carried out by some "Muslims".
How can Islam be responsible for the actions of certain individuals? As I said before, Islam cannot be put down because of the actions carried out by some "Muslims".
So are you telling me Islam is not the problem here in Europe or the middle east ?????????????
Original post by egypt94
The problem you're having here is that you're confusing governments with societies.
The British government is the representative of the British people.
Besides, the same issue of taking personally things that happen to people who are closer to you or more connected isn't some unique Western failing.
Say an Israeli bomb misses its target and kills 80 Palestinians. And place that next to the roof collapsing in a Bangladeshi garment factory killing 80 people. Which do you think the Arab Muslim world will pay more attention to and get angrier about?
Do you think the Arab Muslim world would pay more attention to the Israeli occupation of the West Bank / Gaza, or to the Chinese occupation of Tibet? What's that, the former? I thought you said all lives are equal and failing to treat everything equally means you're a racist?
My issue is the mindset of a society which treats Islam with such suspicion
Well, we will have to agree to disagree. Most non-Muslims in this country know a Muslim/Muslims, through work or socially etc, and treat them with respect, sociality and the like. It is quite offensive to imply that the attitudes of the BNP and EDL represent British society as a whole
We are supposed to be talking about the positive aspects of Islam from a societal point of view
Why do I have to discuss something I believe is non-existent? I'm an atheist, I believe all theism is pernicious. At present, Islam seems to have more problems in that department than other religions. At other times, other religions have been more problematic.
Original post by hazzer1998
If I say what I really think of Islam then I will be banned ...so I will just go on blindly saying that it is the most perfect religion in the world and it has no problems what so ever ? ( does that work for you left wingers ? )
Yup thats the world we live in
Original post by zramazhar
I agree with you completely. Everyone knows about the Brussels Attacks but does anyone know about the bombings that happened in Ankara (Capital of Turkey)?
Actually, it was extensively discussed on TSR. Most of the people on TSR who are interested in these issues were aware of the three bombings in Turkey over the last 6 weeks
Original post by Daniel9998
So are you telling me Islam is not the problem here in Europe or the middle east ?????????????
Islam is NOT the problem. It is the people who claim to be "Muslims". They use the Qu'ran in wrong ways and kill in the name of God to justify such actions. These people are extremists and are the most dangerous sect in Islam (al-khawarij). These people are the worst of the creation. They call to the Book of Allah but they have nothing to do with it. The Messenger of Allah said, "Whoever fights them is better to Allah than them". Even Islam rejects these kinds of groups!
Original post by BeastOfSyracuse
Actually, it was extensively discussed on TSR. Most of the people on TSR who are interested in these issues were aware of the three bombings in Turkey over the last 6 weeks
In the major news channels, there was not even a single mention. I only found out today and many of my friends were not even aware that Turkey was attacked as well. SELECTIVE MEDIA, the media shows us what they want to show!!!!!!!!!!!
Original post by BeastOfSyracuse
You seem to be conflating Islam and Muslims.
It seems like you want to take criticism of Islam and make it into some kind of racist bigotry. It is not.
Second, you cannot separate out a religion from its real implementation. To do so is to assume there is some inherent, objective version of Islam that Muslims are failing to live up to, rather than it simply being a set of texts that are inherently liable to "misinterpretation", and that many parts of the texts themselves adhere to a backward and violent mindset and thus there are Muslim extremists who can justify their actions based on the texts.
I disagree. Saudi law is directly based on Islam, it has no other codified and precedentiary basis. The punishments they mete out, the laws they impose... these are based on the Quran and the hadiths directly.
Secondly, (as an example) it's no coincidence that the only countries in the world that impose the death penalty for homosexual conduct are Islamic countries.
It seems like you want to take criticism of Islam and make it into some kind of racist bigotry. It is not.
Second, you cannot separate out a religion from its real implementation. To do so is to assume there is some inherent, objective version of Islam that Muslims are failing to live up to, rather than it simply being a set of texts that are inherently liable to "misinterpretation", and that many parts of the texts themselves adhere to a backward and violent mindset and thus there are Muslim extremists who can justify their actions based on the texts.
I disagree. Saudi law is directly based on Islam, it has no other codified and precedentiary basis. The punishments they mete out, the laws they impose... these are based on the Quran and the hadiths directly.
Secondly, (as an example) it's no coincidence that the only countries in the world that impose the death penalty for homosexual conduct are Islamic countries.
I know the difference between Islam and Muslims, and neither the religion nor the genuine followers of the religion promote violence or terrorism. Just because terrorist express themselves as following Islamic teaching does not mean they are actually following Islamic teaching.
Like I've already said, there is nothing wrong with criticising Islam from a productive standpoint, but it is important to remember that there is a very big difference between Islamic teaching and national policies. Just because a country has a muslim majority population does not mean all of its government policies are in line with Islamic teaching.
Yes, you can absolutely separate a religion from its implementation, I don't see why you think you can't. There is such a thing as an incorrect interpretation of religious text, even if you don't think so. The way in which countries like Saudi choose to interpret the Qur'an is unfortunate, but the criticism lies with the interpretation not the text itself. Remember that.
Homosexuality was illegal in the UK until the the 1960s. I understand that this is not the same as the death penalty but the idea is still there that it is wrong to be homosexual. Britain is a Christian-majority country, but it is not the Bible that is to be blamed for laws such as these (although many people argue that it is) - it is those who interpret it and implement such disgraceful policies who should be condemned. When homosexuality became legal in 1967 that was not because Christianity as a religion had fundamentally changed, it was because the government made the decision to change the law.
Quick Reply
Related discussions
- Am I Muslim if I am choosing not to worship God?
- Conversion - Sikhism Islam
- my friend stopped talking to me to become a strict muslim
- I've lost islam and I've lost my soul
- Nobody cares about 'changing' the world
- (muslim/hindu advice)
- “It’s culture” but people from Islam are from all different cultures
- Finding myself.
- TSR I-SOC (Islamic Society) Mk. XVII
- Wattpad books haram?
- Is becoming a nurse allowed in Islam?
- Eduqas A-level Religious Studies 1 (A120UA0-1-A120UF0-1) & 2 (A120U20-1) [Exam Chat]
- Why is religion difficult?!
- i took off my hijab, family is crazy
- How would most Muslims react if a Muslim girl got married to a non-Muslim?
- Should children be forced to take RE for gcse?
- Muslim grouping OIC says measures needed to prevent Quran desecration
- Family falling apart over my sisters boyfriend...
- Aren’t exams cruel?
- OCR GCSE Religious Studies Paper 1 [15 May 2023] Exam Chat
Latest
Last reply 26 minutes ago
Bank Of england degree apprenticeship 2024Last reply 31 minutes ago
Feeling inferior compared to syrians as a half moroccan/half whiteLast reply 33 minutes ago
Edexcel A Level Business Paper 1 (9BS0 01) - 14th May 2024 [Exam Chat]Last reply 37 minutes ago
LSE International Social and Public Policy and Economics (LLK1) 2024 ThreadLast reply 39 minutes ago
Official London School of Economics and Political Science 2024 Applicant ThreadLast reply 39 minutes ago
Atkins Degree Apprenticeship 2024Last reply 45 minutes ago
Official UCL Offer Holders Thread for 2024 entryLast reply 49 minutes ago
Official University of St Andrews Applicant Thread for 2024Last reply 1 hour ago
Learn Direct - Vet science Unit 9 HELPLast reply 1 hour ago
LSE undergraduate accommodationLast reply 1 hour ago
The Official Cambridge Applicants for 2025 Entry ThreadTrending
Last reply 17 hours ago
Why is the political left now censorious and authoritarian??Last reply 1 week ago
TSR Goes Green: How important will the environment be in this year's election?Last reply 3 weeks ago
Is University of Birmingham prestigious and respected well enough in UK ?Trending
Last reply 17 hours ago
Why is the political left now censorious and authoritarian??Last reply 1 week ago
TSR Goes Green: How important will the environment be in this year's election?Last reply 3 weeks ago
Is University of Birmingham prestigious and respected well enough in UK ?
