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Why do people think Muslim's don't do enough against ISIS?

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Original post by Frank Underwood
Do you honestly think that the Muslims living in England, coming from whichever country by choice, want to kill gay people and kill apostates?


We see posts almost every day here on TSR from people who either refuse to condemn such punishments or who explicitly support their use. There was one only last week advocating criminalising adultery in the UK. I'm not sure why their location makes their views change.

I'd have thought that the events in Sweden and Germany demonstrate clearly that you can move from Asia or Africa to Europe but still expect to treat women abusively, and the demonstrations with placards calling for "Death to Rushdie" or to those who insult Islam are clear enough (and far too common).

Just google "death to those who insult Islam" and look at the images the search produces.
Original post by Good bloke
We see posts almost every day here on TSR from people who either refuse to condemn such punishments or who explicitly support their use. There was one only last week advocating criminalising adultery in the UK. I'm not sure why their location makes their views change.

I'd have thought that the events in Sweden and Germany demonstrate clearly that you can move from Asia or Africa to Europe but still expect to treat women abusively, and the demonstrations with placards calling for "Death to Rushdie" or to those who insult Islam are clear enough (and far too common).

Just google "death to those who insult Islam" and look at the images the search produces.


The events in Sweden and Germany were problems, yes, but inflated by right-wing isolationist press.

It makes good money to sell a piece of paper which blames all your country's problems on "dirty dirty Muslims and refugees".

I won't deny that some cause a problem, but that 'some' is excessively small. I won't pretend I know the exact number, but it probably doesn't amount to more than 1% of the refugee population, on a very generous day.

It is extremely unfair to punish the 99% based on the problems caused by the 1%.



I condemn what Islam says in the Quran for punishments, but Islam isn't the problem. The problem is corrupt governments, like Saudi Arabia, who use Islam as leverage to oppress the opposition - given that the ancient tenets of Islam say it is okay to execute apostates. But the source isn't Islam, because there are many peaceful Islamic leaders out there. It is corruption using Islam as a leverage, and this corruption sources from the rather dictatorial method of ruling these countries.

We saw the same thing back in Ancient Greece, England, and many other countries. The lack of capacity to develop a country in the middle of a desert is a possible reason for this occurring now.
(edited 8 years ago)
Original post by Frank Underwood
Islam isn't the problem.


Islam is the problem. It is founded on the Koran being the direct word of its god, unchanging, right for all time, and Mohammed being a model of behaviour for all men and all time. The Koran itself specifically forbids anyone adding or subtracting a word from its message and from interpreting it. It is obviously nonsense, but you try and get a Moslem to agree that a word of it isn't relevant now.

Nobody using the Koran as the source of their moral standpoint can, therefore, move forward from a warlike mediaeval desert scenario without severely taxing their logic and analytical reading skills and ability to spin an argument, like the poster in this thread who claimed there is no violence in the Koran.

Given that as your moral base, and about half of all UK mosques run by Salafi or Deobandi wowsers, there is no hope in advancing without ignoring the Koran, which Moslems will not openly do out of fear of being labelled and beaten up as an apostate.
Original post by Good bloke
Islam is the problem. It is founded on the Koran being the direct word of its god, unchanging, right for all time, and Mohammed being a model of behaviour for all men and all time. The Koran itself specifically forbids anyone adding or subtracting a word from its message and from interpreting it. It is obviously nonsense, but you try and get a Moslem to agree that a word of it isn't relevant now.

Nobody using the Koran as the source of their moral standpoint can, therefore, move forward from a warlike mediaeval desert scenario without severely taxing their logic and analytical reading skills and ability to spin an argument, like the poster in this thread who claimed there is no violence in the Koran.

Given that as your moral base, and about half of all UK mosques run by Salafi or Deobandi wowsers, there is no hope in advancing without ignoring the Koran, which Moslems will not openly do out of fear of being labelled and beaten up as an apostate.


Islam is not the problem.

There are Islamic governments that function perfectly well with democracy. Saudi Arabia and various other corrupt governments who happen to be Muslim are corrupt because of other means.

These governments aren't 'corrupt' because they claim to be the true servants of Allah, they are corrupt because the Middle East is a desert, poor development, American interventionism and prosperous militant groups have made it difficult for governments to thrive. Therefore, these governments which consist of Muslims sometimes use Islam as an excuse to punish anyone who opposes the government by claiming that they are apostates - thereby having religious 'justification' and the content of the country's Muslim population.

I did say this in my post above but you obviously ignored it.
Original post by Good bloke
This is obvious nonsense. Hatred of Islam is not the same as hatred of Moslems.

You misunderstood...obviously.
Original post by oShahpo
The ignorance is strong with this one.

Well, let's see.

"Calling Islamic extremism a disease, Saudi Arabia has announced the formation of a coalition of 34 largely Muslim nations to fight terrorism."
And what this formidable Muslim coalition has been done until now? Bombed civilians in Yemen. That's all.

"A top Islamic State operative of the group suspected of bombing the Russian jet over Egypt has been killed by police in Cairo."
Great. One killed.

"Turkey carries out first air strikes as part of anti-Isis US coalition"
And possibly the last. Turkey prefers to bomb Kurds.

"Isis: Ten Arab Nations Join US-Led Coalition against Islamic State"
It ended by several Jordanian airstrikes near Jordanian border.

That's all what 1.5 billion Muslims was able to do?
Original post by Frank Underwood
Do you honestly think that the Muslims living in England, coming from whichever country by choice, want to kill gay people and kill apostates? Come on, just because they're Muslim, they aren't psychopaths. The Quran was written 1500 years ago, to think that all Muslims today follow it word-to-word is obscene, and the same applies to Christians


Some do yes.

But support for laws that would result in the killing of apostates and gay people is rather high alarming high considering

I can provide you with details but I know you'll just ignore them

But I don't think you know any Muslims given your last statement so perhaps your time would be better spent in the ISOC thread telling them how they should follow their faith
Original post by Frank Underwood
Islam is not the problem.

There are Islamic governments that function perfectly well with democracy.


Name them
Original post by BaconandSauce
Name them


Turkey... Oh, wait.

Turkey is the prime example which shows that Islam is incompatible with Western democracy.
Original post by BaconandSauce
Name them


A simple Google search could save you time: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Islamic_democratic_political_parties


Original post by BaconandSauce
Some do yes.

But support for laws that would result in the killing of apostates and gay people is rather high alarming high considering

I can provide you with details but I know you'll just ignore them

But I don't think you know any Muslims given your last statement so perhaps your time would be better spent in the ISOC thread telling them how they should follow their faith


Prove it, prove that some Muslims in the UK want to actively kill gays and 'apostates', I've done enough proving for brick walls like yourself, prove this to me.
Original post by Frank Underwood


Are any of those in power?


Original post by Frank Underwood

Prove it, prove that some Muslims in the UK want to actively kill gays and 'apostates', I've done enough proving for brick walls like yourself, prove this to me.


Exhibit #1:
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/listen-muslim-woman-telling-radio-6692687

Exhibit#2:
http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2009/jul/29/gay-muslims-britain
Original post by Frank Underwood


That is just a list of political parties, some of them operating in western countries, largely dedicated to bringing Islam into politics, many of them with a specific Islamist agenda. That is not quite the same thing as a fully functioning democratic Islamic state, is it?

Try again.
Original post by Good bloke
That is just a list of political parties, some of them operating in western countries, largely dedicated to bringing Islam into politics, many of them with a specific Islamist agenda. That is not quite the same thing as a fully functioning democratic Islamic state, is it?

Try again.


It's a list of democratic Islamic political parties, which within it has Muslim governments, I was hoping the person to whom I replied would look at it and check through to see for himself WHICH ONES IN THE LIST ARE GOVERNMENTS.

Things get annoyingly confusing when hate speech apologists like yourself butt into a conversation when you have no idea what's going on, especially so when you run away when I make valid criticisms of your xenophobic argument.
Original post by Dodgypirate


yes, check the list.

and great, that's one confirmed Muslim woman who thinks gays should be killed

what about apostates, and what about the fact that it shows that one singular Muslim thinks this
Original post by Frank Underwood


what about apostates, and what about the fact that it shows that one singular Muslim thinks this


Anything that comes out of Arjem Chaudry's gob, or this...



[video="youtube;pQzuFrMRA3M"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pQzuFrMRA3M[/video]

Children in Muslim families are taught that "If you leave Islam, you'll be put to death"...

And then, in comparison, I was brought up in an Irish Catholic family... yet, when I reached 15 and gave up my religion, I was allowed to and was told "You can choose your own path". Hundreds of other children in the UK will relate to this.
(edited 8 years ago)
Original post by Dodgypirate
Anything that comes out of Arjem Chaudry's gob, or this...



[video="youtube;pQzuFrMRA3M"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pQzuFrMRA3M[/video]

Children in Muslim families are taught that "If you leave Islam, you'll be put to death"...


Many religions says that if you don't pray or do xyz you will burn in hell for eternity. Why are you singling out Islam? Evidently people in the UK who leave Islam aren't put to death.
Original post by Frank Underwood
A simple Google search could save you time: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Islamic_democratic_political_parties




Prove it, prove that some Muslims in the UK want to actively kill gays and 'apostates', I've done enough proving for brick walls like yourself, prove this to me.


the first is a list of countries that 'claim' to be democratic

this doe snot make them so and I would have expected more than this form you (Jesus you've just claimed Iran is a democratic country even better it includes Syria :biggrin:)

http://my.telegraph.co.uk/danielpycock/danpycock/956/what-do-british-muslims-think-of-the-uk/

All of the information has been sourced

But here show 40% of Muslims want sharia which does kill gay people and apostates

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2006/jun/23/uk.religion


But here is a rather timely article for you to ignore

http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/the-13-countries-where-being-an-atheist-is-punishable-by-death-a6960561.html

I note how some of these countries that kill people for leaving Islam are also on your list of countries you claim are democratic and have no issues.
Original post by Frank Underwood
Many religions says that if you don't pray or do xyz you will burn in hell for eternity. Why are you singling out Islam? Evidently people in the UK who leave Islam aren't put to death.


Have you spoken to any ex muslims about their treatment?

There is a thread about it if you are interested
Original post by Frank Underwood
Many religions says that if you don't pray or do xyz you will burn in hell for eternity. Why are you singling out Islam? Evidently people in the UK who leave Islam aren't put to death.


That's not what he said he said the punishment for apostasy in Islam is death.
Original post by Frank Underwood
yes, check the list.

and great, that's one confirmed Muslim woman who thinks gays should be killed

what about apostates, and what about the fact that it shows that one singular Muslim thinks this


A number of TSR Muslims didn't react well when I created a discussion about the permissibility of being homosexual within Islam. I believe there is room for acceptance of homosexuality in Islam, but I would not pretend that many Muslims are accepting of homosexuality. There are some who are accepting, but they are a minority. For example, when I opened up dialogue about the permissibility of gay marriage in Islam, it didn't take long for a TSR Muslim ember to respond, saying homosexuals deserve the death penalty:

http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/showthread.php?t=3831935

And then you can find some TSR Muslims arguing against my case put forward for a defence of homosexuality here:

http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/showthread.php?t=3513997

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