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Feminists Vs Islam (women are disrespected in islam?)

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Original post by champ_mc99
Maybe... But I meant it's better than reading one verse, taking it out of context and making rash decisions from there, as much as leaving the religion. When did you leave, if you don't mind me asking?


Last summer, I was a non-practicing Muslim for two years before that. I went to a Quran school as a kid and literally memorised the whole Quran with Tafseer. We were also taught Hadith, Tawheed and Fiqh. My family are quite relaxed about religion now so it wasn't so bad.
Original post by SuperStar#7
I'm well aware of the oppression in Africa.


Like FGM in Eritrea and the slavery and lack of education of women and the in Mauritania.

What I meant was that the Middle east should be your number one priority, because in Africa, most of the countries that oppress women only do it because of culture or lack of education.


Middle eastern countries do it because their supposed holy book encourages it.


I'll look up Amnesty intl right now.


Look at Nigeria and Somalia. Of course religion is playing a role here. Yes, culture and lack of education are also factors but it's the same in the Middle East. I wouldn't say these African countries are significantly different to the Middle East. They all have serious problems (and similar problems, if I may add) that we need to address.
Most religions such as Christianity, Judaism, Islam have references that are 'disrespectful to females'. Watching how I use my words as I don't want to offend and believe that people have a choice to follow what ever they want.

It's common for religions with the issue with inheritance- the male always takes more than the female - and property ownership - the male always takes precedent over the female

I personally find it to be so damaging and repressive.
Original post by lulucoco98
Most religions such as Christianity, Judaism, Islam have references that are 'disrespectful to females'. Watching how I use my words as I don't want to offend and believe that people have a choice to follow what ever they want.

It's common for religions with the issue with inheritance- the male always takes more than the female - and property ownership - the male always takes precedent over the female

I personally find it to be so damaging and repressive.




Name ONE THING. That Jesus said that was "disrespectful to females"

From Jesus i mean, not commandments given to Moses, From Jesus.


I'm waiting.
Original post by Legendary Quest
Look at Nigeria and Somalia. Of course religion is playing a role here. Yes, culture and lack of education are also factors but it's the same in the Middle East. I wouldn't say these African countries are significantly different to the Middle East. They all have serious problems (and similar problems, if I may add) that we need to address.




I agree.

The same religion that plagues the middle east is the one plaguing african countries like Somalia and Nigeria. (Although in Nigeria it's mainly just the northern part as the ex minster of education and finance were women).


I think i should've said. The Islamic oppression of women, not just the middle east.
Original post by Bazzel
inb4 'Quran is all about equality'.

Quran (4:11) - (Inheritance) "The male shall have the equal of the portion of two females"

Quran (2:282) - (Court testimony) "And call to witness, from among your men, two witnesses. And if two men be not found then a man and two women."

Quran (2:228) - "and the men are a degree above them [women]"

Quran (5:6) - "And if ye are unclean, purify yourselves. And if ye are sick or on a journey, or one of you cometh from the closet, or ye have had contact with women, and ye find not water, then go to clean, high ground and rub your faces and your hands with some of it"

Quran (24:31) - Women are to lower their gaze around men, so they do not look them in the eye.

Quran (2:223) - "Your wives are as a tilth unto you; so approach your tilth when or how ye will..."

Quran (4:3) - (Wife-to-husband ratio) "Marry women of your choice, Two or three or four"
Quran (53:27) - "Those who believe not in the Hereafter, name the angels with female names."

Quran (4:24) and Quran (33:50) - A man is permitted to take women as sex slaves outside of marriage. Note that the verse distinguishes wives from captives (those whom they right hand possesses).


1. Degree above them in security and strength. It's part of the reason why men are obliged to look after their womenfolk. How often do you see or is it said or practiced that women look after their families against criminals? Normally it's the guy's job to look after the family, lol. If you disagree with that, then that's cool but there is not interpretation that this means that men are better than women.

2. The contact with women, lowering gaze and the tilth (having intercourse) thingy are rules that apply to both genders.

3. Naming the angels female names? That is a characteristic of a certain group of people God speaks about in the Quran. The islamic belief about angels is that we do not prescribe them a certain gender.

Stop cherry picking verses you have no knowledge of. You said in your first post that you weren't trying to offend when 100% you clearly are if you do stuff like this. Get outta here.
Original post by Bazzel
inb4 'Quran is all about equality'.





Quran (24:31) - Women are to lower their gaze around men, so they do not look them in the eye.

.


So ever since i joined this forum all i see is people bashing islam. Anyway lets respond to your points.


U said
Quran (24:31) - Women are to lower their gaze around men, so they do not look them in the eye."
Read 1 verse before it says to the MAN to lower his gaze first then the woman.
Tell the believing men to lower their gaze" 24:30
Reply 47
Avatar for _Fergo
_Fergo
19
Original post by SuperStar#7
Name ONE THING. That Jesus said that was "disrespectful to females"

From Jesus i mean, not commandments given to Moses, From Jesus.


I'm waiting.


You do realise that all accounts of Jesus were written by other people, right?
Original post by Bazzel


Quran (4:11) - (Inheritance) "The male shall have the equal of the portion of two females"

).


(Allah commands you for your children's (inheritance): to the male, a portion equal to that of two females:wink: Allah commands: observe justice with your children. The people of Jahiliyyah used to give the males, but not the females, a share in the inheritance. Therefore, Allah commands that both males and females take a share in the inheritance, although the portion of the males is twice as much as that of the females.

There is a distinction because men need money to spend on their dependants, commercial transactions, work and fulfillling their obligations. Consequently, men get twice the portion of the inheritance that females get. Allah's statement,(Allah commands you for your children's (inheritance): to the male, a portion equal to that of two females:wink: testifies to the fact that Allah is more merciful with children than their own parents are with them, since He commands the parents to be just and fair with their own children.

An authentic Hadith stated that a captured woman was looking for her child and when she found him, she held him, gave him her breast and nursed him. The Messenger of Allah said to his Companions, (Do you think that this woman would willingly throw her child in the fire) They said, "No, O Messenger of Allah.'' He said, (By Allah! Allah is more merciful with His servants than this woman is with her own child.)


Al-Bukhari recorded that Ibn `Abbas said, "The custom (in old days) was that the property of the deceased would be inherited by his offspring; as for the parents (of the deceased), they would inherit by the will of the deceased. Then Allah cancelled whatever He willed from that custom and ordained that the male get twice the amount inherited by the female, and for each parent a sixth (of the whole legacy), for the wife an eighth or a fourth, and for the husband a half or a fourth.''(http://tafsir.com/default.asp?sid=4&tid=10541)


So as you can see, the only reason a male gets a double portion is because he has more work to do than the female, he needs to take of the familly, of his business and so on. This is logic, and not meant to be degrading or bad. What is more interesting is that we see that the pagans would not give their women anything, Islam fixed this problem.
Original post by SuperStar#7
Name ONE THING. That Jesus said that was "disrespectful to females"

From Jesus i mean, not commandments given to Moses, From Jesus.

No need to use that tone mate.

'But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman [is] the man; and the head of Christ [is] God.(Head of every woman is the man). -Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but [they are commanded] to be under obedience, as also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.

Does that solve it for you? Most religions say that about women, Christianity is no exception
Original post by *Stefan*
You do realise that all accounts of Jesus were written by other people, right?




Eye witnesses.


Your point is?
Reply 51
Avatar for Bazzel
Bazzel
Original post by Butternuts96
1. Degree above them in security and strength. It's part of the reason why men are obliged to look after their womenfolk. How often do you see or is it said or practiced that women look after their families against criminals? Normally it's the guy's job to look after the family, lol. If you disagree with that, then that's cool but there is not interpretation that this means that men are better than women.

2. The contact with women, lowering gaze and the tilth (having intercourse) thingy are rules that apply to both genders.

3. Naming the angels female names? That is a characteristic of a certain group of people God speaks about in the Quran. The islamic belief about angels is that we do not prescribe them a certain gender.

Stop cherry picking verses you have no knowledge of. You said in your first post that you weren't trying to offend when 100% you clearly are if you do stuff like this. Get outta here.


Where does it say its referring to 'strength' and 'security'? oh wait...it doesn't. And why've you only mentioned 3 of the verses? can't defend the others?
[QUOTE="lulucoco98;63911177"]
Original post by SuperStar#7
Name ONE THING. That Jesus said that was "disrespectful to females"

From Jesus i mean, not commandments given to Moses, From Jesus.

No need to use that tone mate.

'But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman [is] the man; and the head of Christ [is] God.(Head of every woman is the man). -Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but [they are commanded] to be under obedience, as also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.

Does that solve it for you? Most religions say that about women, Christianity is no exception






That verse was written by PAUL. In 1st Corinthians 14:34.

http://biblehub.com/1_corinthians/14-34.htm

That was PAUL speaking.


NOT JESUS
Try again mate.


I'm still waiting.
Reply 54
Avatar for _Fergo
_Fergo
19
Original post by SuperStar#7
Eye witnesses.


Your point is?


Lol. Tacitus, one of the few original sources, called Jesus and the rising of Christianity superstitions and abominations.

Does that make my point clearer?
[QUOTE="SuperStar#7;63911251"]
Original post by lulucoco98






That verse was written by PAUL. In 1st Corinthians 14:34.

http://biblehub.com/1_corinthians/14-34.htm

That was PAUL speaking.


NOT JESUS


Yeah AND???????? Jesus is still apart of the bible and is a reflection of Christianity. It does not matter who is speaking, if it says it in the bible Jesus must have agreed to it. You can't pick and choose of what you believe in a religion, it's either the whole thing or nothing. Stop being so DUMB
Original post by Bazzel
inb4 'Quran is all about equality'.



Quran (2:282) - (Court testimony) "And call to witness, from among your men, two witnesses. And if two men be not found then a man and two women."

.


O you who believe, when you contract a debt for a specified term, write it down, and let a scribe write it between you in justice… and bring two witnesses from among your men. If there are not two men available, then a man and two women from those whom you accept as witnesses, so that if one of the women errs, then the other can remind her.

Surah Al-Baqarah 2:282This rule was revealed as a practical guide for the Muslim community in the context of the early community in Arabia. Women were not typically educated in financial matters, so in this specific case the testimony of a woman should be supported by another woman who can remind her. The general lesson to be learned is that we should consider the veracity of a witness before accepting their testimony.

Commenting on this verse, Muhammad Asad writes:The stipulation that two women may be substituted for one male witness does not imply any reflection on woman’s moral or intellectual capabilities: it is obviously due to the fact that, as a rule, women are less familiar with business procedures than men and, therefore, more liable to commit mistakes in this respect.Source: Message of the Quran 2:282

However, this rule cannot be properly applied to a situation in which the woman is more educated than the man, such as the case of a woman graduated from a professional business college versus a man who cannot read. In other cases, the testimony of a man and woman are equal.Allah said:وَالَّذِينَ يَرْمُونَ أَزْوَاجَهُمْ وَلَمْ يَكُن لَّهُمْ شُهَدَاءُ إِلَّا أَنفُسُهُمْ فَشَهَادَةُ أَحَدِهِمْ أَرْبَعُ شَهَادَاتٍ بِاللَّهِ إِنَّهُ لَمِنَ الصَّادِقِينَ وَالْخَامِسَةُ أَنَّ لَعْنَتَ اللَّهِ عَلَيْهِ إِن كَانَ مِنَ الْكَاذِبِينَ وَيَدْرَأُ عَنْهَا الْعَذَابَ أَن تَشْهَدَ أَرْبَعَ شَهَادَاتٍ بِاللَّهِ إِنَّهُ لَمِنَ الْكَاذِبِينَ وَالْخَامِسَةَ أَنَّ غَضَبَ اللَّهِ عَلَيْهَا إِن كَانَ مِنَ الصَّادِقِينَ

Those who accuse their wives of adultery and have no witnesses except themselves – then the witness of one of them shall be four testimonies swearing by Allah that indeed, he is of the truthful, and the fifth oath will be that the curse of Allah be upon him if he should be among the liars. But it will prevent punishment from her if she gives four testimonies swearing by Allah that indeed, he is of the liars, and the fifth oath will be that the wrath of Allah be upon her if he was of the truthful

.Surah An-Nur 24:6-9Had the testimony of a woman always been less than a man, then a man who accuses his wife of adultery would always win in Islamic court. However, a woman accused of adultery by her husband can testify against him and in this case their testimonies are equal. Other verses of the Quran put men and women on equal footing.
Allah said:وَالْمُؤْمِنُونَ وَالْمُؤْمِنَاتُ بَعْضُهُمْ أَوْلِيَاءُ بَعْضٍ

The believing men and believing women are allies of one another.Surah At-Tawba 9:71
Original post by *Stefan*
Lol. Tacitus, one of the few original sources, called Jesus and the rising of Christianity superstitions and abominations.

Does that make my point clearer?




While other Historians like Eusebius, Josephus and even Constantine openly testify to the authenticity of Christ.


No you didn't make your point clearer.
[QUOTE="lulucoco98;63911397"]
Original post by SuperStar#7


Yeah AND???????? Jesus is still apart of the bible and is a reflection of Christianity. It does not matter who is speaking, if it says it in the bible Jesus must have agreed to it. You can't pick and choose of what you believe in a religion, it's either the whole thing or nothing. Stop being so DUMB




Are you a moron?


Paul said that years after the death of Christ, in a time where women in Palestine were either extremely unruly and uneducated, or just from other tribes trying to disrupt a gathering.

If you have no idea of what you are saying please keep quiet and leave the theological debate to the experts.
Reply 59
Avatar for _Fergo
_Fergo
19
Original post by SuperStar#7
While other Historians like Eusebius, Josephus and even Constantine openly testify to the authenticity of Christ.


No you didn't make your point clearer.


Please quote the writing you're referring to. The specific ones which say that Christ, as the Son of God who would make things miraculously happen, actually exists.

My point is that Jesus Christ as a person is very likely to have existed - his divinity is nothing but fairytales though.

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