I'm sick of entitled junior doctors
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i support the junior doctors but my mum (who works for the NHS) says some are middle class snobs 
Junior doctors don't earn enough for what they do , they pretty much get the same pay as nurses do and they do a lot of hours. They should go on strike, they work hard
Original post by MrsSheldonCooper
Would you take some of them in then?
And no, I'm not going to sympathise with a bunch of men( which are most of the population) who come from a misogynistic culture and are just trying to come to the UK for a free house and benefits. Feel free to call me naive even when you're naive enough to think they're refugees.
The junior doctors go into one of the toughest professions in the world. They deserve respect and a decent pay with decent hours. The migrants in Calais? All they've done is create some sob story and attacked journalists in a desperate attempt to become freeloaders.
And no, I'm not going to sympathise with a bunch of men( which are most of the population) who come from a misogynistic culture and are just trying to come to the UK for a free house and benefits. Feel free to call me naive even when you're naive enough to think they're refugees.
The junior doctors go into one of the toughest professions in the world. They deserve respect and a decent pay with decent hours. The migrants in Calais? All they've done is create some sob story and attacked journalists in a desperate attempt to become freeloaders.
Not in my house no, simply because I don't own my own home so it's not my choice but I won't sit outside my house with a can of carling and condemn those who come to our country to seek refuge and the chance of a better life. Until they are citizens of the UK they cannot legally get a job anyway so they are forced to live off the system and our welfare and knowing that makes me sympathise with them more. Would I rather they take our council homes and our refuge houses than live in war-riddled countries? Yes.
I'd much rather pay tax knowing my money was saving people and their families than knowing it goes on pieces of paper to make people stay in the EU. Yes, junior doctors do deserve respect and decent pay and as I said, I think they are commendable for the choice in a profession they've made but it is still a choice. They chose to be doctors and they knew the life of a doctor when they took that role and it's stupid to compare doctors with the life of someone who fears death and destruction in their home country.
Sob story and freeloaders? Really? They have a right to their sob story because it is a "sob story". They have war and death in their home country and they want to escape that and they have every right to do so. We are so ridiculously lucky to be in England and live the privileged lives we do and to say people who are worse off than us are freeloaders is so self-righteous.
Original post by bethwalker85
Not in my house no, simply because I don't own my own home so it's not my choice but I won't sit outside my house with a can of carling and condemn those who come to our country to seek refuge and the chance of a better life.Until they are citizens of the UK they cannot legally get a job anyway so they are forced to live off the system and our welfare and knowing that makes me sympathise with them more. Would I rather they take our council homes and our refuge houses than live in war-riddled countries? Yes. I'd much rather pay tax knowing my money was saving people and their families than knowing it goes on pieces of paper to make people stay in the EU. Yes, junior doctors do deserve respect and decent pay and as I said, I think they are commendable for the choice in a profession they've made but it is still a choice. They chose to be doctors and they knew the life of a doctor when they took that role and it's stupid to compare doctors with the life of someone who fears death and destruction in their home country.Sob story and freeloaders? Really? They have a right to their sob story because it is a "sob story". They have war and death in their home country and they want to escape that and they have every right to do so. We are so ridiculously lucky to be in England and live the privileged lives we do and to say people who are worse off than us are freeloaders is so self-righteous.
Hahahahaha if they really were escaping war and death in their country, why are they so desperate to get to a nation where conveniently, there's free health care, free education and if they had a refugee status, they would be able to claim benefits of some sort?They're in a safe country already. They should be choosing to settle there. Not trying to attack journalists and hijacking trucks.
Doctors are doing something good for their country. The migrants in Calais should be fighting for their country, not running to the UK for a free house. I believe that's what the British and French did in WW1 and WW2. They didn't give up after they saw their countries bombed. They fought back and they won.
The NHS is at its knees already, we're suffering so many cuts and you're suggesting we take in people who don't deserve anything at all? No, I would rather see taxes go to the elderly and to education services. You can call me self righteous all you like, but I lost my sympathy for these lot ages ago and would rather see money go to support the homeless in the UK.
You say you wouldn't be able to take them into your own house. If you had your own home, would you?
Original post by MrsSheldonCooper
Hahahahaha if they really were escaping war and death in their country, why are they so desperate to get to a nation where conveniently, there's free health care, free education and if they had a refugee status, they would be able to claim benefits of some sort?They're in a safe country already. They should be choosing to settle there. Not trying to attack journalists and hijacking trucks.
Doctors are doing something good for their country. The migrants in Calais should be fighting for their country, not running to the UK for a free house. I believe that's what the British and French did in WW1 and WW2. They didn't give up after they saw their countries bombed. They fought back and they won.
The NHS is at its knees already, we're suffering so many cuts and you're suggesting we take in people who don't deserve anything at all? No, I would rather see taxes go to the elderly and to education services. You can call me self righteous all you like, but I lost my sympathy for these lot ages ago and would rather see money go to support the homeless in the UK.
You say you wouldn't be able to take them into your own house. If you had your own home, would you?
Doctors are doing something good for their country. The migrants in Calais should be fighting for their country, not running to the UK for a free house. I believe that's what the British and French did in WW1 and WW2. They didn't give up after they saw their countries bombed. They fought back and they won.
The NHS is at its knees already, we're suffering so many cuts and you're suggesting we take in people who don't deserve anything at all? No, I would rather see taxes go to the elderly and to education services. You can call me self righteous all you like, but I lost my sympathy for these lot ages ago and would rather see money go to support the homeless in the UK.
You say you wouldn't be able to take them into your own house. If you had your own home, would you?
They're so desperate to get here because there is no war? I don't get how you don't get that. Plus, they aren't just targeting the UK, they are targeting many places in Europe where there isn't war.
The benefits for asylum seekers is something like £17 a week, if not less. What safe country are they in? France, Belgium? All countries which are similar to Britain but they have allowed them in but we continue to shut them out.
So you think women, children, the elderly should try and fight people who cut the heads off of people just for defying them? Yes, but this isn't the 1930's and millions of people shouldn't die for this sake. In the WW's, people sought asylum in neighbouring countries and they were saved from death. They won after thousands of people were killed in gas chambers and from guns just because they didn't fit the ideal of the Nazi's.
Why do they not deserve anything? Because they aren't English? "These lot" that's such a generalisation. Why are the homeless more deserving? It is because they are actually in England and you class them as English? I'm not saying they are more deserving but I would love to know why you see them as more deserving than asylum seekers.
Original post by MrsSheldonCooper
There's no war in France sweetheart. I know they're looking at other places in Europe, I'm referring to the Calais migrants specifically. They're illegal immigrants nonetheless.
Women make up 25% of the Kurdish fighters going against Islamic state. There were 1.7 million migrants coming into Europe. According to a news report I looked up just now, 72% of them are men. That's 1.2 million men including the Kurds and Assad's soldiers going against ISIS (which is a few thousand). Pretty obvious who would probably win that.
It doesn't matter what era this is! The concept is the same at the end of the day! You're failing to recognise that mainly because you're a naive do gooder. I believe the homeless are more deserving because charity starts at home and Britain is already full as it is. You should do your research about how much Germany is planning to spend on migrants.
You ask why I don't want them. Look at what happened in the Cologne sex attacks. Taking in men who come from an alien, stone age culture into the UK isn't a good idea and never will be.
And you never answered my question.
Women make up 25% of the Kurdish fighters going against Islamic state. There were 1.7 million migrants coming into Europe. According to a news report I looked up just now, 72% of them are men. That's 1.2 million men including the Kurds and Assad's soldiers going against ISIS (which is a few thousand). Pretty obvious who would probably win that.
It doesn't matter what era this is! The concept is the same at the end of the day! You're failing to recognise that mainly because you're a naive do gooder. I believe the homeless are more deserving because charity starts at home and Britain is already full as it is. You should do your research about how much Germany is planning to spend on migrants.
You ask why I don't want them. Look at what happened in the Cologne sex attacks. Taking in men who come from an alien, stone age culture into the UK isn't a good idea and never will be.
And you never answered my question.
When did I say that there was war in France? I said that there are migrants all over Europe trying to find refuge in countries where there isn't war.
Oh yes because we should always read everything we hear in the news shouldn't we? That's where you prboably get your idea that all migrants come to England to steal our jobs and rape our wives.
There are Russian, USA and UK armies going against IS yet they are undefeated yet you think that getting together unwilling migrants would solve the problem? Well done to you, please write a letter to David Cameron and let him know you've solved the militaries strategic problems.
It does matter what era this is. There is a giant difference between the people of 1930 and the people of the 21st century. My grandfather fought in world war 2 and died hating germans because of the world war. It's a similar effect to people hating muslims or islam because of ISIS. One group of people grow hate for a whole nation/religion of people because of the action of a few evil individuals.
The cologne sex attacks was what, 100 men? Compared to the thousands of English or non migrant people who try and commit sexual assault daily? You're looking at such a narrow portion of people in the world.
If the world was in such a state that regular people had to start accepting migrants or asylum seekers into their home I probably would. But, luckily we live in England, a first world country where there are thousands and thousands of houses that just aren't lived in. I drive through areas of my city and see bordered up houses which aren't inhabited. Why aren't homeless people put there? Why aren't asylum seekers put there?
Original post by WBZ144
My sister is a junior doctor and that girl works so hard, it's unreal. She doesn't complain but I do feel that junior doctors are exploited and treated pretty badly. Also, they don't get paid as much as you implied.
I fully support their right to go on strike.
I fully support their right to go on strike.
I might sympathise if
a)So much of the rest of the country was not living on a pittance relative to house/rent prices, being so totally hollowed out, so many working (and non, where there's nothing) abject poor.
b)They weren't more entitled than older doctors.
Most of all
c)Such huge numbers of them now are from private school backgrounds with no opportunities(academic and in many cases financial) for bright state school pupils.
Not for one second do I doubt that the junior doctors are far more concerned that this contract compromises the safety of the patients than their pay... but to be honest, the fact that this supposed '11% pay rise' is actually a slash in their pay is simply unjust. The first thing to note is that whilst junior doctors have chosen this profession, which is not meant to be a monetary based decision, they work extremely hard, are among some of the most intelligent people in the country and deserve to be rewarded for the hours they put in. If i was a junior doctor I would be angry at this pay cut as well as the compromising of patient safety... dont know why its such a taboo that doctors would like to be paid well- they do incredibly hard work after all! in the same way i would fully support teachers if they are underpaid and undervalued. at the end of the day though, its all a state run business- education and nhs... and sadly the country only has finite resources 
I have sympathy with the junior doctors but think that they and the union are being very unreasonable and are in my opinion taking it too far. They constantly hold signs up saying save our NHS and how they want to save patients but surely if they are going to strike in A&E departments as well, that will just overstretch the NHS even further putting patient lives at risk, which shouldn't be acceptable.
Original post by SaucissonSecCy
I might sympathise if
a)So much of the rest of the country was not living on a pittance relative to house/rent prices, being so totally hollowed out, so many working (and non, where there's nothing) abject poor.
b)They weren't more entitled than older doctors.
Most of all
c)Such huge numbers of them now are from private school backgrounds with no opportunities(academic and in many cases financial) for bright state school pupils.
a)So much of the rest of the country was not living on a pittance relative to house/rent prices, being so totally hollowed out, so many working (and non, where there's nothing) abject poor.
b)They weren't more entitled than older doctors.
Most of all
c)Such huge numbers of them now are from private school backgrounds with no opportunities(academic and in many cases financial) for bright state school pupils.
Why are you so keen to engage in a race to the bottom? In addition, pay is a small factor in what is a very complex contract dispute.
As a doctor from a comprehensive school, I experienced no barriers into medical school. I was kicked out of my home at 16, worked part time through sixthform and university. I applied to the many hospital work experience schemes that are open to any student.
The educational background of doctors plays no relevance to this contract dispute. It's so far detached from the issue that it makes no sense that you've even brought it up.
Original post by MattB_
I have sympathy with the junior doctors but think that they and the union are being very unreasonable and are in my opinion taking it too far. They constantly hold signs up saying save our NHS and how they want to save patients but surely if they are going to strike in A&E departments as well, that will just overstretch the NHS even further putting patient lives at risk, which shouldn't be acceptable.
Striking is a lesser evil to a new contract which would endanger safety on a far greater scale.
In addition, consultants are more than able to provide emergency care. No lives are at risk here.
Original post by Etomidate
Why are you so keen to engage in a race to the bottom? In addition, pay is a small factor in what is a very complex contract dispute.
As a doctor from a comprehensive school, I experienced no barriers into medical school. I was kicked out of my home at 16, worked part time through sixthform and university. I applied to the many hospital work experience schemes that are open to any student.
The educational background of doctors plays no relevance to this contract dispute. It's so far detached from the issue that it makes no sense that you've even brought it up.
As a doctor from a comprehensive school, I experienced no barriers into medical school. I was kicked out of my home at 16, worked part time through sixthform and university. I applied to the many hospital work experience schemes that are open to any student.
The educational background of doctors plays no relevance to this contract dispute. It's so far detached from the issue that it makes no sense that you've even brought it up.
Good for you, but the general figures will show how bad social mobility always was, and how it declined. And it is relevant, to my opinion, as I stated.
Original post by SaucissonSecCy
Good for you, but the general figures will show how bad social mobility always was, and how it declined. And it is relevant, to my opinion, as I stated.
So a student from a private school deserves to enter into a career whose contract contains terms which allow it to be amended by absolute authority of the employer? Are you saying we should only be imposing this contract on doctors who went to private schools?
Maybe I'm being dense, but I don't see your point.
Original post by MrsSheldonCooper
Why don't you go and stay with a few yourself and make your own mind up? My own sister has had experience with migrants and before, she had the same view as you. After her year abroad in Cologne, she doesn't want to step foot in the city again and doesn't want migrants in this country.
Tell your views to the family whose daughter was stabbed by a "refugee", the mother whose son was raped by a migrant because it was a sexual emergency and the thousands of women who have been assaulted by migrants and have been told not to go out at night? They'd love your naive views.
The Cologne sex attacks was 1000 men actually and they traced the phones of the girls who were robbed back to asylum seeker centres. How very weird right? It's still a huge number. And majority of the times, the British who do assault get sent to prison. The rapists and robbers got nothing. There have been sex attacks all over Europe and there have been videos asking this.
Islamic migration is a huge problem mainly because the religion isn't compatible in the West. If you care about Islam so much, move to a Muslim country. I'm sure many others would agree with me. The fact that the migrants claim to be coming from a country that's bottom 10 in the world for gender equality speaks volumes.
I can hardly take you seriously with your views. Please do your research and come back to me. You don't even know current events that have happened and you preach about how wrong I am, when really, I'm being brutally realistic.
Tell your views to the family whose daughter was stabbed by a "refugee", the mother whose son was raped by a migrant because it was a sexual emergency and the thousands of women who have been assaulted by migrants and have been told not to go out at night? They'd love your naive views.
The Cologne sex attacks was 1000 men actually and they traced the phones of the girls who were robbed back to asylum seeker centres. How very weird right? It's still a huge number. And majority of the times, the British who do assault get sent to prison. The rapists and robbers got nothing. There have been sex attacks all over Europe and there have been videos asking this.
Islamic migration is a huge problem mainly because the religion isn't compatible in the West. If you care about Islam so much, move to a Muslim country. I'm sure many others would agree with me. The fact that the migrants claim to be coming from a country that's bottom 10 in the world for gender equality speaks volumes.
I can hardly take you seriously with your views. Please do your research and come back to me. You don't even know current events that have happened and you preach about how wrong I am, when really, I'm being brutally realistic.
The situation in Cologne is so dire because they are literally overrunning the place because they have nowhere to go.
I'm sorry but you're saying I'm so naive and deluded but you're just so set in your ways that you judge a group of people then don't see those around you. There are many many cases of English people that get sexually assaulted by white british people and they don't get caught. Then you can raise a few migrant cases and compare them against the amount of sexual assault cases in Britain.
There have been 3 cases you mentioned within the last year, care to compare that against the amount of stabbings, rape and murder in Britain in the last year by British people?
I am not saying that they are combatible with us, this is a extreme situation and they are seeking refuge against war, rape and famine what part of that don't you get? Their culture is a lot different than ours, I'll give you that but I will not judge a whole culture on views of some.
You are being brutal, that's for sure but you aren't be realistic you are being bigoted.
Original post by Etomidate
So a student from a private school deserves to enter into a career whose contract contains terms which allow it to be amended by absolute authority of the employer? Are you saying we should only be imposing this contract on doctors who went to private schools?
Maybe I'm being dense, but I don't see your point.
Maybe I'm being dense, but I don't see your point.
No, my point was much more straightforward-one of who I sympathise with and think have suffered enough obstacles and deserve most respect--my general political views inform this-so if someone from your background was making a case I'd respect them more.
A private schooly would never say that in bold btw, far too humble for where you're at.
Might as well reveal my 'chip' NOW and ramble,
god there are some pompous dicks in one of the biggest enclaves in the land near me, they are still superior to everyone even when they made it to bar staff, from their aspirational and advantaged position, it's beneath them to look at them and thank you, these are the people who demand manners from everyone else, and when you make a basic inquiry which you need to going about you're daily business and someone is being rude, or there dog has come right up and attacked, they'll adopt that sniffy demeanour and that way of speaking where it's beneath them to force it out and completely ignore you in that pompous ***** way. I am biased here but I hate English private school kids and our class system, and seeing as how mobility goes down and down and I can imagine the background of many of these people, including horrible private school people and kids of immigrants/ Asian people, (though I mind them a lot less if they are state school clearly)children of immigrants who will have been bombarded with love about how superior they are to the degenerate, morally inferior thick white provincials, it doesn't put me in their favour.
Oh and don't say my prejudice is irrational, because it has been proven to me time and again.
(edited 8 years ago)
Original post by SaucissonSecCy
I might sympathise if
a)So much of the rest of the country was not living on a pittance relative to house/rent prices, being so totally hollowed out, so many working (and non, where there's nothing) abject poor.
b)They weren't more entitled than older doctors.
Most of all
c)Such huge numbers of them now are from private school backgrounds with no opportunities(academic and in many cases financial) for bright state school pupils.
a)So much of the rest of the country was not living on a pittance relative to house/rent prices, being so totally hollowed out, so many working (and non, where there's nothing) abject poor.
b)They weren't more entitled than older doctors.
Most of all
c)Such huge numbers of them now are from private school backgrounds with no opportunities(academic and in many cases financial) for bright state school pupils.
a) There are always going to be people who are less fortunate than you but that does not mean that you don't have the right to complain if you aren't treated fairly.
b) The pay difference that senior doctors get compared to their pay is significantly large.
c) Again that's unfortunate and the system should change but it's not the fault of junior doctors.
Original post by intelligent con
Why should they go on strikes when MY taxes pay for them. Wow they're pays being cut so they won't be able to afford a second ferrari boo hoo. Meanwhile the poor refugees in calais are being subject to police and far right brutality. They need to get some perspective and stop their whinging and slowing down appointments in MY hospitals.
how can you be this ignorant? doctors and nurses are over worked underplayed and under valued by stupid people like you!
these are people who dedicated their lives to saving people.
And the government screws them over y telling them to work seven days a week with no increase in budget for extra staff,!
I think the government should be down on its knees apologising for everything they have done because no doctors = no
nhs!
It wouldn't have come to this had the BMA not made such a fuss over pay 
Makes you wonder what's actually important to them
Makes you wonder what's actually important to them
Original post by Indeterminate
It wouldn't have come to this had the BMA not made such a fuss over pay
Makes you wonder what's actually important to them
Makes you wonder what's actually important to them
The BMA identified a long list of points of contention with regards to the new contract, of which one was pay.
Quite right they "made a fuss", as they should have done as a representatives of tens of thousands of junior doctors.
Believe it or not, being able to pay for a mortgage, my registration and exam fees is quite important to me.
Original post by WBZ144
Did I say she went on strike?
No, you said she went on a trike.
But I do agree with the JuDos. If their pay and benefits are being made significantly reduced, then they have every right to strike. Becoming a good doc takes a lot of time and effort. Cutting overtime etc undermines their efforts. Hopefuly dopey Dave Cameron will have a change of heart when he develops heart disease and needs the skills a few doctors for the transplant. Probably will use private doctors because he is a privileged twunt.
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