The Student Room Group

Should schools alter changing rooms, toilets + uniforms to accommodate trans pupils?

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Original post by DonkeyShlong
I don't see how much gender neutral you can get with school uniforms, most now are trousers/skirt and a jumper/blazer (aren't they?) I see a lot of girls wearing trousers, so why should any one male by birth not be allowed to wear a skirt.

My question is how would you address such issues at single gender schools?


The issue I have with uniform is that boys cannot wear dresses/skirts whereas girls can wear dresses/skirts and trousers. I doubt many would want to but they should have the choice if they so want it.
Original post by EdwardBarfield9
The issue I have with uniform is that boys cannot wear dresses/skirts whereas girls can wear dresses/skirts and trousers. I doubt many would want to but they should have the choice if they so want it.


A boy at a school in my city wore a skirt to school for a week to make a point and the school did actually change the rules so boys could wear skirts.

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So one school. The minority obviously make exceptions. We wouldn't be allowed at my school. It's unfair.
Original post by EdwardBarfield9
So one school. The minority obviously make exceptions. We wouldn't be allowed at my school. It's unfair.


Has anyone at your school actually attempted to campaign for it?

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I've personally thought for a long time that single-sex bathrooms are just a stupid idea in the first place. I'm sure it would take British society a while to adjust, but I've been places where I've used unisex toilets for periods of time and I feel they're a positive thing for peoples outlook on the opposite sex for a variety of reasons.

As others have said, uniform is already pretty unisex. The only way to make it more so would be to just force everyone into trousers, which I personally see nothing wrong with either.
Original post by Dheorl
I've personally thought for a long time that single-sex bathrooms are just a stupid idea in the first place. I'm sure it would take British society a while to adjust, but I've been places where I've used unisex toilets for periods of time and I feel they're a positive thing for peoples outlook on the opposite sex for a variety of reasons.

As others have said, uniform is already pretty unisex. The only way to make it more so would be to just force everyone into trousers, which I personally see nothing wrong with either.



I mean single sex bathrooms are a good idea, men get urinals and women normally get the pad disposer, it makes sense, I see no reason to have unisex bathrooms
Original post by AperfectBalance
I mean single sex bathrooms are a good idea, men get urinals and women normally get the pad disposer, it makes sense, I see no reason to have unisex bathrooms


If men used a normal toilet instead of a urinal then I see no reason to have single sex bathrooms.

In my experience unisex bathrooms help prevent the over-sexualisation of the opposite sex which we are seeing as a problem across much of society, shown by things such as the perceived need for stricter dress codes to not distract from learning and somehow prevent harassment. It's hard to see someone as nothing more than a sex object when you've sat in the next cubicle and had a chat whilst they fart out last nights curry.

May seem like a crazy, idiotic statement, but IMO society would be a better place if more men and women were comfortable sitting and having a **** next to each other.
Original post by Dheorl
If men used a normal toilet instead of a urinal then I see no reason to have single sex bathrooms.

In my experience unisex bathrooms help prevent the over-sexualisation of the opposite sex which we are seeing as a problem across much of society, shown by things such as the perceived need for stricter dress codes to not distract from learning and somehow prevent harassment. It's hard to see someone as nothing more than a sex object when you've sat in the next cubicle and had a chat whilst they fart out last nights curry.

May seem like a crazy, idiotic statement, but IMO society would be a better place if more men and women were comfortable sitting and having a **** next to each other.




Ok well I don't think bathrooms help with stopping "Over-sexualisation"
I mean if anything I think incidents could happen.
Urinals are really useful, for the space of 1 toilet you can get like 4-5 urinals, this helps with speed so I see no reason for using the toilet when I need to pee
Original post by AperfectBalance
Ok well I don't think bathrooms help with stopping "Over-sexualisation"
I mean if anything I think incidents could happen.
Urinals are really useful, for the space of 1 toilet you can get like 4-5 urinals, this helps with speed so I see no reason for using the toilet when I need to pee


I think 4 - 5 is a huge stretch. Maybe 2, and even that when they're separate urinals is maybe a bit of a stretch. Come to that why should they not still have urinals? There are unisex toilets in France that have urinals and they do just fine.

I've experienced living with them, and IMO they're just better. I've never heard of any incidents, and think if people grew up with them from day one there'd be no issue.

Like I say, it would take British society a bit of time to adjust, but it would be worth it IMO.
Original post by AperfectBalance
I mean single sex bathrooms are a good idea, men get urinals and women normally get the pad disposer, it makes sense, I see no reason to have unisex bathrooms


I think that's an extraordinarily bad excuse for sex- or gender-segregated bathrooms/toilets. Half the unisex toilets on the continent just have urinals in them too, and it's not exactly hard or expensive to put pedal bins in an extra handful of cubicles. Urinals really aren't that much more efficient anyway, especially when you consider that a significant proportion of men never use them, and all men have to use normal cubicles too.

I'd really like somebody to give a sensible answer to why we have segregated toilet facilities in the first place. Really, what is the actual purpose for it? I feel like unisex facilities should be the default unless we have good reason to do otherwise (just like with every other service/facility we ever use). We shouldn't even need to justify their implementation explicitly.
Original post by Implication
I think that's an extraordinarily bad excuse for sex- or gender-segregated bathrooms/toilets. Half the unisex toilets on the continent just have urinals in them too, and it's not exactly hard or expensive to put pedal bins in an extra handful of cubicles. Urinals really aren't that much more efficient anyway, especially when you consider that a significant proportion of men never use them, and all men have to use normal cubicles too.

I'd really like somebody to give a sensible answer to why we have segregated toilet facilities in the first place. Really, what is the actual purpose for it? I feel like unisex facilities should be the default unless we have good reason to do otherwise (just like with every other service/facility we ever use). We shouldn't even need to justify their implementation explicitly.




There is no real reason for unisex, and catering to trans people is not a reason
Original post by AperfectBalance
There is no real reason for unisex, and catering to trans people is not a reason


I'm asking why not unisex? Why segregate based on gender or sex? I see no legitimate reason for it, and so the default should be unisex.
Original post by Implication
I'm asking why not unisex? Why segregate based on gender or sex? I see no legitimate reason for it, and so the default should be unisex.


it is for gender reasons and it makes a lot of sense, we have different needs and many people would be uncomfortable with other sexes being in the same toilet as them
Original post by AperfectBalance
it is for gender reasons and it makes a lot of sense


Such as?


we have different needs


Like what? Cubicles with bins do the job pretty well for everyone, no? Urinals could also be incorporated with zero difficulty.


and many people would be uncomfortable with other sexes being in the same toilet as them


And if many people were uncomfortable with other races being in the same facilities as them, would that be a good reason for racially segregated facilities?
Original post by Implication
Such as?




Like what? Cubicles with bins do the job pretty well for everyone, no? Urinals could also be incorporated with zero difficulty.




And if many people were uncomfortable with other races being in the same facilities as them, would that be a good reason for racially segregated facilities?



There is no reason to change what we have
Original post by AperfectBalance
There is no reason to change what we have


Please read my posts again.
Original post by Implication
Please read my posts again.


I have and I see no reason to change them
Original post by AperfectBalance
I have and I see no reason to change them


You have failed to response to virtually everything that I said and don't seem able (willing?) to defend your position.
Original post by Implication
You have failed to response to virtually everything that I said and don't seem able (willing?) to defend your position.




There is no reasonable argument for mixed. Most people you ask would want segregated, and anyway why spend all the money changing them?
Not sure why we need to change stuff around... If you're a trans male then use the male toilets, if you're a trans female then use female toilets. There's honestly no need to add anything. Adding more areas just seems like a waste of money to me, money that could be spent in other areas like classroom supplies or even education on the subject...

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