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Should The Death Penalty Be Allowed?

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Reply 60

Moonstruck16

Original post by Underscore__

What relevance does that have? It doesn't matter what you prefer to call it, it's torture

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A lazy slob who doesn't want to do community service would also call picking up litter torture.

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Reply 61

Moonstruck16

Original post by Implication

Why do they 'deserve' punishment then? What's the purpose of it? To make them suffer?

Punishment as being a deterrent.
Punishment as being a reward. Like being rewarded for being good.
To keep the balance of deserved happiness over evil, and evil over undeserved happiness.

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Reply 62

Pro Crastination

Original post by Moonstruck16

We know empirically the death penalty does not serve as a deterrent, I don't think medical testing as a potential proxy for it is different.

To aim to 'keep the balance of deserved happiness over evil, and evil over underserved happiness' as a social policy would require us to go so much further than a death penalty/forced medical testing. There is a great deal of subjectivism to the matter that is often more clear cut in the case of a murder; should we have a 100% inheritece tax as inheritece effectively constitutes undeserved happiness? Should we aim to monitor the degree to which everyone works hard in life and heavily tax those who have amassed millions through good fortune and little else? Murder cases would make up a minuscule part of the imbalance of the overall injustice of 'undeserved happiness' in the world, so for that policy to be effective, government would have to delve into the more 'subjective' areas.

I would argue that creating unhappiness purely to counter undeserved happiness serves no effective purpose in the world, that seeking a cosmic 'balance of deservedness' is an arbitrary ambition in comparison to seeking to maximise overall happiness (under which system I don't think one could justify the death penalty at all, enforced medical testing would be questionable).

(edited 8 years ago)

Reply 63

Moonstruck16

Original post by Pro Crastination

I never said I agreed with the death penalty and my view on medical testing had nothing to with the question I replied to.

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(edited 8 years ago)

Reply 64

Implication

Original post by Moonstruck16

That doesn't answer why you think anyone 'deserves' to be punished though? Why do you think some people deserve to suffer? I don't think deliberately causing more suffering for its own sake can seriously be considered as the moral or just thing to do.

Deterrence is a very tricky issue. First, we actually need evidence that a specific punishment really works as a deterrent. In the case of capital punishment, for example, this evidence is very much missing. Second, what are the moral implications of using deterrence as justification? I don't think it's at all obvious that inflicting suffering on one person so that people in the future don't do similar things is okay.

Reply 65

Moonstruck16

Original post by Implication

Because I'm human. Some humans naturally want punishment as a consequence, others want alternatives as a consequence. That's just how I think and as much as I'd like to be pleasant, I can't.

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Reply 66

PhantomHill

I'm opposed to the death penalty. It's not that I care about preserving the life of say, a serial killer or child abuser, and if such people are killed in vigilante attacks then so be it. What I am concerned about is who's hands the right to kill is in. Let's not kid ourselves into thinking that
political leaders and government authorities are even close to being free of corruption and prejudice, they're just as guilty of it as anybody, if not more so. It's too strong a force that can be too easily abused, by a too easily corruptible body.

Reply 67

Implication

Original post by Moonstruck16

So in what sense do they deserve punishment? Saying that you personally want them to be punished isn't really the same thing!

Reply 68

PhantomHill

^ and randomly throwing in the word 'naturally' doesn't sell your cause very well either.

Reply 69

Moonstruck16

Original post by Implication

So in what sense do they deserve punishment? Saying that you personally want them to be punished isn't really the same thing!

Look, the question of the thread was should the death penalty be allowed. My answer was no. It wasn't about anything needing to be justified.

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Reply 70

Moonstruck16

Original post by PhantomHill

^ and randomly throwing in the word 'naturally' doesn't sell your cause very well either.

I wasn't trying to sell anything. I answered a question. I don't care if you agree or disagree and don't want to hear your reasons in reply either.

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Reply 71

muslimstanisyed

Original post by MockingJay-

What's your verdict? Is it right to kill someone for killing somebody?

Imo we should have the death penalty for rape and pedophilia

Reply 72

saladays

Not at all.

Killing a killer does not reduce the number of killers in the world; it makes it stay the same.

Anyone with any empathy should look for the goodness in other humans. If you can't find any light in the criminal, at least find sympathy for their family. At least think about how your family would feel if you were condemned to death, or if one of your family members were.

I think it's inhumane and barbaric, really.

(Although, of course, if a person was about to press a button that would launch a nuclear attack that destroyed the entire world and the absolute only way to save the world would be to kill them, I would accept it. But that's an exaggerated circumstance. I'm talking about murder crimes and following prosecutions.)

Reply 73

Underscore__

Original post by Moonstruck16

A lazy slob who doesn't want to do community service would also call picking up litter torture.

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Well the authority for calling picking up litter is, as you put it, a lazy slob. The authority for calling forced medical trials torture is the only (to the best of my knowledge) internationally ratified human rights document.

Original post by muslimstanisyed

Imo we should have the death penalty for rape and pedophilia

There's a flight to Jeddah departing Heathrow at 20:45, go there and your barbaric wish will become a reality.

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Reply 74

muslimstanisyed

Original post by Underscore__

There's no evidence that capital punishment is an effective deterrent. The USA have capital punishment yet have a higher murder rate than any country in the EU where it's forbidden.

The last point sounds like a quote from Star Wars or a Disney film.

Well the authority for calling picking up litter is, as you put it, a lazy slob. The authority for calling forced medical trials torture is the only (to the best of my knowledge) internationally ratified human rights document.

There's a flight to Jeddah departing Heathrow at 20:45, go there and your barbaric wish will become a reality.

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You are soft thats why.
If someone nonced off your daughter you would probably do nothing about it

Reply 75

Pro Crastination

Original post by muslimstanisyed

You are soft thats why.
If someone nonced off your daughter you would probably do nothing about it

Or they just haven't bought into an outdated notion that 'an eye for an eye' actually serves any practical purpose or is morally justifiable?

Reply 76

Moonstruck16

Original post by Underscore__

There's a flight to Jeddah departing Heathrow at 20:45, go there and your barbaric wish will become a reality.

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Look mate. He stated his opinion and that's it. Whilst you may not appreciate his opinion, it was not directed at you and you had no reason to reply like a ****. This thread is asking for opinions and this person didn't try to start a debate with you.

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Reply 77

Implication

Original post by Moonstruck16

Look, the question of the thread was should the death penalty be allowed. My answer was no. It wasn't about anything needing to be justified.

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Original post by Moonstruck16

You realise this thread is in the debates subforum, right? Besides, it's very important to challenge poorly-thought out positions in public, whether you want to stick your magic criticism-resistant 'opinion' label on them or not!

If you can't justify your position, you shouldn't hold it. That's really not much more than a tautology.

Reply 78

Moonstruck16

Original post by Implication

It a position that I just have. That is my justification. If you can change my opinion then great but right now, I only have one reaction.

What position do you suggest I hold then? Your one? Because I don't have a justification for that either.

Anyway, I inputed, that's it. Why aren't you 'trying to open up a debate' with all the other people on this thread who don't hold your position? The person who suggested sending them to a rubbish island may like to argue with you. I can quote them in if you can't find them and you can have some banter with them.

Also, how is telling someone to get on a plane any way to open up a debate or respons to someone 'in a justified way'.

(edited 8 years ago)

Reply 79

BlackHorseRoad

I agree with the death penalty. No good comes from our species being around. The more we kill off, the better. Best start with the ones who want to kill others. Morals are no longer involved, in this day any age. The sooner the human rights law is eradicated the better. Some people should have no rights. Equality has failed.

Si vis pacem, para bellum