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Switzerland Suspends Citizenship process for Muslim Family

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/apr/19/switzerland-suspends-citizenship-process-muslim-family

'Switzerland has suspended the citizenship process for the family of two teenage Muslim brothers after the boys’ refusal to shake hands with their female teachers sparked a national debate over religious freedoms.

The brothers, aged 14 and 15, had informed education officials in the northern municipality of Therwil that physical contact with women who are not family members violated their faith.

They were then exempted from a Swiss custom of pupils shaking teachers’ hands, with Therwil officials instructing them to avoid contact with male teachers as well to avoid gender discrimination.

But the compromise sparked a heated response from leading Swiss politicians including the justice minister, Simonetta Sommaruga, who insisted that “shaking hands is part of [Swiss] culture”.

On Tuesday, authorities in the canton of Basel-Country where Therwil is located, said that naturalisation proceedings for the family had been put on hold.'

Glad to see some common sense being applied to situations like this

Hope we get to see more of this in the future

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The Swiss are offended and stopped naturalisation proceedings because some people refused to shake the hand of someone else?

That's extremely petty and child like.
Original post by TheArtofProtest
The Swiss are offended and stopped naturalisation proceedings because some people refused to shake the hand of someone else?

That's extremely petty and child like.


It is notoriously hard to get Swiss nationality.

Would that it were as hard to get British...
Original post by TheArtofProtest
The Swiss are offended and stopped naturalisation proceedings because some people refused to shake the hand of someone else?

That's extremely petty and child like.


I know fancy refusing to shake someones hand.

How petty and child like as well as discriminatory and generally backwards in attitude.

Thank the lord the Swiss are trying to protect their culture from such idiots.
Original post by JezWeCan!
It is notoriously hard to get Swiss nationality.

Would that it were as hard to get British...


Quite
That's not really a valid reason is it? Would they do the same if they were from any other religion/culture?

I'd understand if they were connected to terrorism, hate speech or something like that. But this is just stupid.
I'm not sure I agree. I understand that in some cultures it is offensive to refuse to shake a persons hand if they have offered you a hand to shake. However, should cultural practices be enforced upon people and is offending cultural practices a crime? Whilst it is generally respectful to obey certain cultural practices if in another country, people often don't. I think an important part of the modern Western world especially, is that we have the freedom to break cultural practices, which is important as not all cultural practices are necessarily deserving of respect.
Original post by Lord Samosa
That's not really a valid reason is it? Would they do the same if they were from any other religion/culture?

I'd understand if they were connected to terrorism, hate speech or something like that. But this is just stupid.


Yes I believe it is a valid reason and yes they would regardless of the religion

Why would you so rude to the culture that is offering you sanctuary

Not only biting the hand that feeds but also refusing to shake it is really poor form
Reply 8
Avatar for HAnwar
HAnwar
17
This is so stupid honestly.
The boys didn't shake their teachers hand for religious reasons. Get over it and move on.
I did not know that Muslims are not allowed to shake female hands.
Why?
Original post by HAnwar
This is so stupid honestly.
The boys didn't shake their teachers hand for religious reasons. Get over it and move on.


Your missing the point. Switzerland can decide whether to let these people become Swiss citziens and enjoy all the benefits. If respecting their culture and traditions is part of it and they dont want to integrate, then maybe they ought to consider going to a country where they would feel more comfortable to practice their religion. Citizenship is a privilege not a right.
Original post by HAnwar
This is so stupid honestly.
The boys didn't shake their teachers hand for religious reasons. Get over it and move on.


It looks like that is what they will have to do

Move on

perhaps Saudi might be more suitable for them
I appreciate they're wanting to "protect their culture" and stuff. That's fair enough.

But something to me doesn't add up: I don't know about swiss immigration in particular but usually these things happens if you commit a crime. Whilst sexual assault is a crime, this isn't.
The authorities themselves permitted this behaviour and there was no warning along the lines of "if you don't shake hands, your citizenship could be at risk". So, as undesirable as "not shaking hands" is, the children were not to know that their citizenship was at risk - specially after they were given approval. Its very disingenuous from the authorities to now come out and take it all back.

Regardless of one's view of immigration and refugees, something's a bit off here.

Immigration laws are generally insanely complicated though ...


Posted from TSR Mobile
Original post by HAnwar
This is so stupid honestly.
The boys didn't shake their teachers hand for religious reasons. Get over it and move on.


What's stupid is their contempt for Swiss culture and their refusal to integrate.

Ideally they would be told to **** off to some medieval cesspit where their ******** is more accepted. As it is, they are only being denied the right to Swiss citizenship and the advantages that entails.

If they were serious about getting Swiss citzenship, which is notoriously strict, then they would make more of an effort to integrate.
Reply 14
Avatar for Roofas
Roofas
2
Original post by HAnwar
This is so stupid honestly.
The boys didn't shake their teachers hand for religious reasons. Get over it and move on.


Original post by TheArtofProtest
The Swiss are offended and stopped naturalisation proceedings because some people refused to shake the hand of someone else?

That's extremely petty and child like.


If someone is unwilling to shake hands because of 'religious reasons' then they show that they lack complete and total ability and willingness to integrate into civilised society. Who knows what other backwards customs they want to follow that are incompatible with enlightened, European culture.

We're not all slaves to religion.
Original post by chemting
I appreciate they're wanting to "protect their culture" and stuff. That's fair enough.

But something to me doesn't add up: I don't know about swiss immigration in particular but usually these things happens if you commit a crime. Whilst sexual assault is a crime, this isn't.
The authorities themselves permitted this behaviour and there was no warning along the lines of "if you don't shake hands, your citizenship could be at risk". So, as undesirable as "not shaking hands" is, the children were not to know that their citizenship was at risk - specially after they were given approval. Its very disingenuous from the authorities to now come out and take it all back.

Regardless of one's view of immigration and refugees, something's a bit off here.

Immigration laws are generally insanely complicated though ...


Posted from TSR Mobile

The Swiss are notoriously strict, not only on immigration, but also on citizenship.
Reply 16
Avatar for JoeTSR
JoeTSR
22
Question. If someone who had OCD, with panic attacks when touching someone else's hand and had to scrub the skin raw afterwards, requested nicely to avoid shaking hands, would that be a reasonable reason to halt naturalisation in the opinions of the 'kick them out' people?

Just curious as to where the line's drawn.
Original post by JoeTSR
Question. If someone who had OCD, with panic attacks when touching someone else's hand and had to scrub the skin raw afterwards, requested nicely to avoid shaking hands, would that be a reasonable reason to halt naturalisation in the opinions of the 'kick them out' people?

Just curious as to where the line's drawn.


No it would be unreasonable

OCD isn't a choice

Discriminating against someone because of their sex is

Simple really
Original post by tengentoppa
The Swiss are notoriously strict, not only on immigration, but also on citizenship.


Well as far as I'm aware, many countries have visa free access to Switzerland ... so I understand if they're a bit strict on citizenship.

Regardless of how strict they are, these laws must be communicated. If they were told "if you don't shake hand, its very rude and may put your citizenship process at risk", then the authorities would have a point...
Reply 19
Avatar for JoeTSR
JoeTSR
22
Original post by BaconandSauce
No it would be unreasonable

OCD isn't a choice

It could easily be argued that what religion you happen to be a member of at age 14 isn't a choice either.

Original post by BaconandSauce
Discriminating against someone because of their sex is

..
Original post by BaconandSauce
They were then exempted from a Swiss custom of pupils shaking teachers’ hands, with Therwil officials instructing them to avoid contact with male teachers as well to avoid gender discrimination.

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