The Liverpool FC Thread XIV

Original post by Lúcio

As mrtim highlighted, it could be 2-4 years if guilty. That's his career effectively over, obviously done at Liverpool which really sucks because we all know he can be an absolutely top quality defender.
We'd still have Matip coming in but we have no idea how he'll work out, and we'd likely have to buy another CB anyway or face being stuck with Skrtel.

I don't care about the result from a PL perspective because league position is irrelevant (provided we finish top 7). I care about the Mignolet mistake and our inability to hold a lead.

I'm not blaming the crumble solely on Mignolet, but his mistake started it and gave Newcastle huge confidence. Whose to say the same won't happen in the EL ties?

Today, DDG saved a United penalty and helped them get to the FA Cup final. It's a dagger in my heart whenever he makes a huge save because every decent team aside from us has a keeper that saves points instead of costing them.

Only top 7 if Man Utd win the FA Cup otherwise it would be top 6 except if we win the EL.. :colondollar:

Reply 6822

Lúcio

19

Original post by Zerforax

Only top 7 if Man Utd win the FA Cup otherwise it would be top 6 except if we win the EL.. :colondollar:

Yeah sorry, I acknowledge that previously (might've been in the United thread actually).
I'm indifferent to be honest - EL is nice but focusing solely on domestic football next season wouldn't be the worst in the world.

All our hopes are on Thursday now, let's not bottle it. We've beaten the favourites, let's not waste it.

Reply 6823

If we don't get EL next year, the careers of 5-10 of our youth players are severely stunted; Brannagan, Chirivella, Randall, Stewart, Teixeira if he stays, Rossiter if he stays, Ojo, Ibe, Ward, Smith, more I can't think of are all reliant on EL game time. Klopp knows how to win in Europe, and how to rotate his squad properly, and we have a squad worthy of rotation. Would definitely prefer EL to no EL. I do think we'll win the cup though and get CL as a result.

(edited 8 years ago)

Reply 6824

Zerforax

OP

Original post by Summer Sixteen

If we don't get EL next year, the careers of 5-10 of our youth players are severely stunted; Brannagan, Chirivella, Randall, Stewart, Teixeira if he stays, Rossiter if he stays, Ojo, Ibe, Ward, Smith, more I can't think of are all reliant on EL game time. Klopp knows how to win in Europe, and how to rotate his squad properly, and we have a squad worthy of rotation. Would definitely prefer EL to no EL. I do think we'll win the cup though and get CL as a result.

How many of those do you expect to become first team players in the future though? It's all well and good looking at youth players but if they aren't going to meet the high standard set by first team players we're able to buy elsewhere, they will get sold/moved on. We aren't a club focused on developing youth (but would be a nice added bonus).

Original post by Summer Sixteen

If we don't get EL next year, the careers of 5-10 of our youth players are severely stunted; Brannagan, Chirivella, Randall, Stewart, Teixeira if he stays, Rossiter if he stays, Ojo, Ibe, Ward, Smith, more I can't think of are all reliant on EL game time. Klopp knows how to win in Europe, and how to rotate his squad properly, and we have a squad worthy of rotation. Would definitely prefer EL to no EL. I do think we'll win the cup though and get CL as a result.

And how many of those, realistically, will turn into the next Gerrard or Carragher? How many of them will end up being sent on loan 1000 times before eventually being sold to someone like Huddersfield? I remember similar talk about Wilson, Pacheco, Amoo, Ayala, Eccleston etc.

If you're good enough you will find a way through irrespective of what competition your team play in.

Oh, and Sakho is a ****ing idiot considering Kolo Toure got banned for taking the eact same thing a few years ago. It screws France over for the Euros as well because they're already missing Laporte and Zouma with long term injuries. I guess they'll have to settle with Varane, Koscielny, Mangala & Mathieu.... Sagna can play CB as well.

(edited 8 years ago)

Reply 6826

Original post by Summer Sixteen

If we don't get EL next year, the careers of 5-10 of our youth players are severely stunted; Brannagan, Chirivella, Randall, Stewart, Teixeira if he stays, Rossiter if he stays, Ojo, Ibe, Ward, Smith, more I can't think of are all reliant on EL game time. Klopp knows how to win in Europe, and how to rotate his squad properly, and we have a squad worthy of rotation. Would definitely prefer EL to no EL. I do think we'll win the cup though and get CL as a result.

Agreed.

We've seen how the EL has grown as a competition this year, too.

Again, next year there'll be plenty of big hitters in the tournament, and the year after.

I love all kinds of continental competition, to be honest.

Original post by sr90

And how many of those, realistically, will turn into the next Gerrard or Carragher? How many of them will end up being sent on loan 1000 times before eventually being sold to someone like Huddersfield? I remember similar talk about Wilson, Pacheco, Amoo, Ayala, Eccleston etc.

If you're good enough you will find a way through irrespective of what competition your team play in.

Oh, and Sakho is a ****ing idiot considering Kolo Toure got banned for taking the eact same thing a few years ago. It screws France over for the Euros as well because they're already missing Laporte and Zouma with long term injuries. I guess they'll have to settle with Varane, Koscielny, Mangala & Mathieu.... Sagna can play CB as well.

Agree with your last para completely. Surely there's some sort of communication between players?

Reply 6827

Original post by Zerforax

How many of those do you expect to become first team players in the future though? It's all well and good looking at youth players but if they aren't going to meet the high standard set by first team players we're able to buy elsewhere, they will get sold/moved on. We aren't a club focused on developing youth (but would be a nice added bonus).

I expect 1 (Ojo) to be a first teamer and a few squad players. Aside from that, we'll just sell them to PL and Championship clubs, creating 20-30 million for ourselves. United made a living off the sales of the likes of Frazier Campbell (7m bid in 2008) and Kieran Richardson (5.5m in 2007) and 5-10 more of them being sold for 500k-2m fees every season, and for us that'll generate more money, fund more purchases of the likes of Ibe, Sterling and Ojo (the best 14-16 year olds in the country). On top of that, if just one of those players that we give EL time turns out to be a handy squad player (like, eg, Stewart, who we got on a free, has this season) then we don't need to **** about buying the likes of Bogdan, Aspas, Poulsen, Victor Moses, Assaidi. Our academy can and should create our Jonny Evans, our Wes Browns, our squad players who are well versed in our style of play, cost nothing, won't want to leave, don't need to assimilate and are happy to fight for a place on the bench.

We have, after Chelsea and maybe City, the best youth system in the country. If we don't give the players a chance to play then none of them will ever make it through, and none of them will ever do the club well by generating solid transfer fees. Every player I named has the potential for a 5m+ fee for us, and there's more (Kent, Canos, Wilson), and I've only named current 18-21 year olds. The current U18s are almost as good.

Original post by sr90

And how many of those, realistically, will turn into the next Gerrard or Carragher? How many of them will end up being sent on loan 1000 times before eventually being sold to someone like Huddersfield? I remember similar talk about Wilson, Pacheco, Amoo, Ayala, Eccleston etc.

If you're good enough you will find a way through irrespective of what competition your team play in.

Talk about Pacheco, Amoo, Ayala, Eccleston was rubbish, none of them were on the same level as our current talents except Pacheco. Pacheco failed because he couldn't handle the top level physically or mentally, and that's common in young players. It doesn't mean you just discard the system entirely. Funny how you've included 18/19 year old Wilson on that list. If you know nothing of our youth players then why bother even commenting?

Mikel san Jose never got a look in at Liverpool, Gabriel Paletta never made it through here, and they've both gone on to get capped for Spain and Italy. Danny Drinkwater is about to win the league with Leicester after not making it (or ever looking like he could make it) at United. Pogba was behind Sterling, Morrison, Suso, Januzaj and ****ing Zeki Fryers in most fans' estimations and 12 months later he's the most vaunted young player on the planet. What you said about 'players always making it through' is utter ********. That only applies for Messi/Gotze level talents and frankly, accounting for them isn't what youth systems are about.

Essentially both of you are suggesting we write off the youth system completely because we won't produce a Gerrard. Great, why set the bar at Gerrard, the best central midfielder that England has seen since Robson, or even Charlton? Lets set it at Pele the 17 year old who scored 6 goals in the 1958 WC. I don't know what either of your general points is, if Klopp has the skills and the squad to rotate then there is literally no reason why we shouldn't go for it.

Reply 6828

difeo

18

probs meant Danny Wilson

Reply 6829

Original post by difeo

probs meant Danny Wilson

Well if he did, it would be an incorrect example cos he came as a senior player (like Coates).

Reply 6830

I thought at the time Danny Wilson was such a smart piece of business. Scotland's Young Player of the Year (following on from the likes of Naismith, Brown, Fletcher), he'd made 10+ first team starts for Rangers in the SPL, was tipped highly.

Ah well.

Reply 6831

difeo

18

Original post by Summer Sixteen

Well if he did, it would be an incorrect example cos he came as a senior player (like Coates).

He was 18, younger than most of the players you mentioned in your original post (Teixeira in particular is 23)

Reply 6832

Canos' goal yesterday. What a strike.

Reply 6833

Original post by Mackay

I thought at the time Danny Wilson was such a smart piece of business. Scotland's Young Player of the Year (following on from the likes of Naismith, Brown, Fletcher), he'd made 10+ first team starts for Rangers in the SPL, was tipped highly.

Ah well.

I can't speak for his actual quality as a prospect at Rangers, but he just got lost in the managerial turmoil of the time.

Original post by difeo

He was 18, younger than most of the players you mentioned in your original post (Teixeira in particular is 23)

But signed as a senior player, more Martial, not Rashford. Teixeira's categorisation with the rest of these U21s comes from having lost 2 seasons to injury. It's minor anyway

Reply 6834

Original post by Summer Sixteen

I can't speak for his actual quality as a prospect at Rangers, but he just got lost in the managerial turmoil of the time.
But signed as a senior player, more Martial, not Rashford. Teixeira's categorisation with the rest of these U21s comes from having lost 2 seasons to injury. It's minor anyway

All I remember is him playing against Northampton. There was no coming back for anybody after that.

Reply 6835

difeo

18

Original post by Summer Sixteen

I can't speak for his actual quality as a prospect at Rangers, but he just got lost in the managerial turmoil of the time.
But signed as a senior player, more Martial, not Rashford. Teixeira's categorisation with the rest of these U21s comes from having lost 2 seasons to injury. It's minor anyway

Point is that as an 18 year old who only made 2 league appearances he would clearly be in the category of "reliant on EL game time" for his development
But yeah very minor

Reply 6836

bj27

Original post by BeFoUr

Kane is better than Sturridge

Na, similar level in terms of being a goalscorer but Sturridge has more pace, dribbling ability and link up play(which is severely underrated due to the 'selfish' tag he used to get unfairly based on his days at Chelsea).

I'd say Kane's probably better in his off the ball movement(although both players are good in that sense) but Sturridge has more to his game. Kane can hold the ball up better though.

Reply 6837

BeFoUr

1

Original post by bammy jastard 27

Na, similar level in terms of being a goalscorer but Sturridge has more pace, dribbling ability and link up play(which is severely underrated due to the 'selfish' tag he used to get unfairly based on his days at Chelsea).

I'd say Kane's probably better in his off the ball movement(although both players are good in that sense) but Sturridge has more to his game. Kane can hold the ball up better though.

Disappointed that nobody bit tbh. Similar scoring rates but Kane stays fit so actually scores 30 a season, Sturridge seems to just have 10-15 goals in 20-30 games (if that) seasons, which realistically have to stop or he's not getting a big move (essentially how injuries have likely ruined Wilshere's career). Nobody would touch Sturridge with a barge pole atm though, so Kane is the more coveted of the two.

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Reply 6838

Zerforax

OP