Thoughts on veganism/vegetarians etc

I'm not vegetarian or vegan but as I understand it the objection to eating eggs is that in doing so we are supporting an industry which often mistreats the chickens and kills the vast majority of male chicks on birth.

4. Your last statement is just ignorant. I have pet chickens and they treat their eggs likes it's the most precious thing they have.

3. Leading on from point 2, what made people think it's ok to think of animals as products to basically use and abuse for cash? If an animal i deemed worthless it's killed. If it fulfills it's "use" it's mistreated, just so people like you can make an omelette or have some chicken nuggets.

This all sounds really promising, I would defiantly be interested In trying to shift my diet towards a less meat dependent style. It would probably be something I would play around with in the summer, for example i could try to allocate one day a week where I avoid all animal products. Then depending on the success or failure of that I could then increase it to two days a week and so on.

Certainly there are problems with the meat industry that I'd like to see dealt with, but personally I wouldn't deprive myself of a full diet only to have the most irrelevant imaginable effect on overall demand.

Well, that conflicts directly with the evidence I've seen. I will assume that chicken behaviour differs massively and that you're not telling tall tales.

I suppose this is the core of the matter.

All I can say is that I don't have any problem with raising and killing animals for practical purposes, so long as they're treated humanely while they're alive.

Eating meat is morally egregious. If only perfect people were allowed to judge others, nobody would be able to judge another person on the basis of any of their actions, ever. In any case, I don't even judge meat-eaters, really, unless they try and argue their position dishonestly. I never tell them that they are bad people, because that's not constructive and also untrue. I merely state facts about the practices of the meat industry and its impact on the world, and if that makes meat-eaters uncomfortable, I consider that to have a lot more to do with their attitude than mine.

All in all, I've never sought to arrogate the moral high ground. Not eating meat is a better practice than eating meat, but that doesn't make me a better person than any given carnivore. I talk about why meat-eating is unethical in an attempt to get more people to stop, not to make myself high-and-mighty.

I'd also like to point out that I haven't bought or received a new article of clothing or electronic device since Christmas. I'm well aware that modern consumerist culture is riddled with products that have unethical backgrounds, making them extremely difficult to avoid, but I'm trying my hardest, dammit, so speak for yourself!

2.) Make up lies that if you eat meat you will certainly get cancer. Yep.

Why do you think that eating meat is morally egregious?

Would this extend to the meat of animals hunted in over-populated areas where they would starve to death slowly due to competition for food?

Or the meat of predators in areas where they pose a significant risk to human beings? Would you object to the killing on any grounds? If so, is it morally egregious to eat the meat of an animal that died of natural causes? What if a human being gives explicit consent to be eaten after they die - would that be morally egregious?

I think that is reasonable as long as you stop if people ask you to. I have no problem with you communicating your views to friends (for example) if they are receptive. You clearly think abstaining from eating meat is the best thing to do so it is reasonable to want your friends to make the same "better" choices. I have been quite persistent with persuading friends of the value of certain positions I hold with regards to justice, education and the like in the past.

Well I said often, not always, which left plenty of room for vegans who do also do their best not to support exploitative industries. I know several such people. However, why have you not stopped using and wearing the items you already have? Have you checked the ethical record of the company that made the parts for your computer or laptop? If you have a smartphone, have you done the same and then bought a phone which is made ethically? Would you shop in ASDA given Wal-Mart's history? If I recall correctly they are one of the businesses blacklisted by Norway's sovereign wealth fund, for example.

None of this is meant as a "gotcha" as you'll have heard these points before, I am just interested in where you think the appropriate place is for a person to draw the line?

You ask some good questions. In general, I hold the practice of everyday consumption of store-bought meat from animals bred solely for exploitation and slaughter to be morally wrong. I'd agree that in some of the scenarios you describe, meat-eating could be more morally acceptable.

My main issue with hunting animals in over-populated and underfed wild areas is that it's often human influence and human intervention that perpetuates the problem, usually by harming the population of the animal's natural predators or its food source.

I think it would be morally acceptable to eat the meat of dangerous animals killed for human protection, but that occurs so rarely that it's no real defence of meat-eating in general. I also object, to a certain extent, to people living in areas where dangerous carnivores live. If we're encroaching on their domain and that can be avoided, the self-defence argument becomes somewhat less legitimate.

I think it's morally acceptable to eat an animal after it dies of old age or natural causes, but I don't think that I personally ever would, unless I was starving or something. The only way I could be absolutely sure that the animal had been treated right and had had a happy and long life would be if I had personally lived with the animal - if I had kept it for milk or eggs or something. (I am not a complete vegan - while I deplore the state of today's dairy industry, I don't think the practice of milking has to be inherently harmful or cruel to cows.) But at that point, I think I'd have probably made some emotional attachment and it would be like eating a pet.

Eating meat from the corpse of a human who has given their clear consent is probably nominally moral, but it also strikes me as a) frickin bizarre, and b) highly inadvisable from a medical perspective. Nobody wants a prion disease.

I haven't stopped wearing and using the items that I own with somewhat suspect backgrounds, because in my eyes, that doesn't really solve anything. The items have already been bought, I've already paid their manufacturers, and disposing of the items doesn't hurt the industry in any way. In fact, it means that I then have to replace the items by buying more things. My general approach to the problem is to consume as few products as possible. The other aspect of this is that consumerist culture just isn't sustainable, as I'm sure you've heard. A system where objects are manufactured, bought, and then eventually thrown away will inevitably run out of raw materials and waste disposal space, and both problems are evident in the world today.

I haven't really looked into ASDA, but I don't shop there simply because from what I've heard it seems too cheap to be true - it makes me suspicious that they must be cutting corners somewhere, in ethical terms or otherwise. If they're winding up on blacklists, that comes as no surprise to me.

I am a vegetarian.
Cannot be a vegan because I love cheese so much

Posting anonymously so I don't get slated for my opinions

If you have to be vegetarian/vegan for a real dietary purpose then that's absolutely fine, that's what's best for your body. And religious reasons for meat etc, that's also fine.
BUT,
if you're one of those people who becomes veggie/vegan because you want to be different/think it's cool then that's just daft. We designed to eat meat and animal produce and we get loads and loads of nutrients from it. Sure, there are lots of other alternatives that vegans eat but you're paying more in general and what's the point? I know a couple of vegans and they have to take supplements because they're lacking important vitamins. Do what's best for your body and eat a proper, balanced diet in combination with regular exercise and you'll be nice and healthy.

You won't definitely get cancer - cancer is enormously multifactorial. Eating meat is a proven risk factor for cancer, though. That is scientific consensus, not some lies that I've made up.

I don't appreciate you comment saying that i need to try to be "nice and healthy" as it is not your place ro comment on anyones health- not just mine. Im actually healthier as a vegetarian than i ever was when i ate meat.

No I'm not, I'm just curious about it because I am a meat eater myself but I eat as little meat as possible to do my bit, even if it is a little.

ah cool, why don't you want to be vegetarian/vegan?

Well I could be vegetarian if I really tried, but vegan is too far for me, I wouldn't manage. Also, it's really difficult for me to be a vegetarian because I come from a big meat eating family who don't believe in vegetarianism and don't let me be one. But it's also really hard to be vegetarian in boarding school because the meals aren't substantial enough, and I can't make my own food and bring it in. So as much as I would like to, I can't for the moment, maybe when I'm living by myself I'll give it a go.

Don't worry i had the same problem, try getting one vegetarian meal a week through showing them the animal slaughter documentaries