This is how to criticise Israel without being anti-Semitic

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I've just been reading the Khazarian hypothesis, and all my sources place an emphasis on this being speculation. According to Wikipedia 'the evidence used to tie the Ashkenazi communities to Khazars by descent is exiguous and subject to conflicting interpretations' and 'the theory had been received with skepticism or caution by most modern scholars.'

Are you trying to claim this little theory, based on Middle age sources and disputed by modern scholars, as fact?

Yes because the oxford journal isn't much different to the daily mail afterall right?
Typical zionist response, dismiss the scientific evidence that dissaproves any moral claims for the illegal settlement of non-semite jews to palestine.

Looks like you need to educate yourself some more.
http://m.gbe.oxfordjournals.org/content/5/1/61.full

Reply 41

CAElite

Israel is a rogue state which causes instability among its neighbours and commits constant atrocities.
North Korea is also a rogue state which causes instability among its neighbours and commits constant atrocities.

The only reason that the former statement could be considered anti Semitic/racist is because of the amount of Israeli nationals and pro-Israel individuals working in western media.

As to that tumblr guide, all the extremely anti-Semitics statements listed as example are extremely misled and I can honestly not understand how someone could make one of them and not expect to be called anti Semitic.

(edited 7 years ago)

Reply 42

TheSuingEU

Most the "Jews" in Israel are Atheist Zionists.

[video="youtube;nMQ9C6vni0w"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nMQ9C6vni0w[/video]

(edited 7 years ago)

Reply 43

Youngmetro

Original post by simbasdragon

What are you denying? That Jesus was a Jew living in Judea, a place named after the 'biblical Israelite tribe of Judah,' where most Jews dwelt?

Or that Judaism is comprised of Ashkenazim and Sephardim?

Ignore the 'Not only' bit. I know that jesus was a jew.

Im talking genetics, where jewish people have the genes of eastern europeans.

Reply 44

simbasdragon

Original post by Youngmetro

First and foremost im totally against these anti semitic attacks. they are wrong and totally unjustified when innocent jews are victimised. The problem i have is that you think not being politically correct is going to increase these attacks.

Israel has been regularly defended, almost protected by the Americans. They continue to expand into palestinian territory and dont get anywhere near the attention necessary by the media and only something like Al Jazeera really reports on it. Why? Because a culture has arisen where we have to be extra sensitive when talking about Jews and the Israelis can often get away from what they do.

As we talk, Palestinians are being underpaid to build Jewish shops, schools, buildings and settlements that their own people cannot work in. Their forced to work for the jews because they take their land You ever see that on the news? This tumblr post in a certain sense highlights the fact that israelis use this taboo culture as leverage for their own agenda.

Your experience of Israel receiving little press attention massively differs from mine. 'Operation protective edge' was broadcast live and hourly for days on end by BBC and Sky news, both of whom televise live every time there is an incident of attacks in the region. Many I know claim that the media focus on Israel attacking Palestinians far more than they do on Israeli civilians killed by Palestinian suicide bombers, but of course when both sides claim to being wronged by the media then you have to take accusations by all with a pinch of salt.

'As we talk, Palestinians are being underpaid to build Jewish shops, schools, buildings and settlements that their own people cannot work in. Their forced to work for the jews because they take their land You ever see that on the news?

I constantly see it on the news, articles on Facebook about this are on my newsfeed daily, how are you missing these yet I'm bombarded with them?

Reply 45

simbasdragon

Original post by Youngmetro

Ignore the 'Not only' bit. I know that jesus was a jew.

Im talking genetics, where jewish people have the genes of eastern europeans.

Genetically, if you're judging this based on the Khazarian theory, it appears to hold very little weight amongst modern academics.

Reply 46

simbasdragon

Original post by TheSuingEU

Most the "Jews" in Israel are Atheist Zionists.

[video="youtube;nMQ9C6vni0w"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nMQ9C6vni0w[/video]

Not sure why 'Jews' is hyphenated, Judaism is based on maternal lineage rather than active belief. 41% of Israeli Jews are secular, and your point is?

Reply 47

TheSuingEU

Original post by simbasdragon

Not sure why 'Jews' is hyphenated, Judaism is based on maternal lineage rather than active belief. 41% of Israeli Jews are secular, and your point is?

Atheists cant be a part of "Judaism"

Reply 48

JamesN88

It's quite easy to criticise a political regime and the actions of their military without being racist towards the people involved.

People who are incapable of doing that already have underlying racial prejudices.

Reply 49

Youngmetro

Original post by simbasdragon

Im talking mainstream, 6 oclock news, newspapers, that kind of stuff. sure, there are reporters dedicated to the issue but it isnt as widely reported and makes it name on mainstream media. The BBC and Sky mostly put it on dedicated news channel services in order to avoid any backlash. Anyone can selectively pick and choose the pages they subscribe to and the articles they receive but it isnt as widely reported as it should be. I too am fully aware of it too. The last suicide bombing by Hamas certainly got attention.

Reply 50

simbasdragon

Original post by Mentally

Why do you assume I'm a 'typical Zionist?' I have mentioned throughout this thread that I criticise many of Netanyahu's actions.

A clear flaw in their research is that 'as the ancient Judeans and Khazars have been vanquished and their remains have yet to be sequenced, in accordance with previous studies, contemporary Middle Eastern and Caucasus populations were used as surrogates.' When the reliance is upon surrogates, the accuracy is diminished.

It may interest you to know the aims of the promoter of the Khazarian theory, Arthur Koestler:

The History of the Khazar TheoryIt's ironic that the man who popularised the Khazar theory, Arthur Koestler (in his 1976 book The History of the Jewish Khazars AKA The Thirteenth Tribe), did so in order to dissipate European Jew-hatred. The idea was to show his fellow Europeans that the Jews were just as European as anyone else (i.e., they were not really Semites). He thus attempted to show people that Jews could trace their heritage back to the Khazars in the 8th century. In fact, Koestler himself once told French biologist Pierre Debray-Ritzen that he
"was convinced that if he could prove that the bulk of Eastern European Jews (the ancestors of today's Ashkenazim) were descended from the Khazars, the racial basis for anti-Semitism would be removed and anti-Semitism itself could disappear."However, as the Swedish archaeologist Bozena Werbart, put it:
"In the Khazar kingdom, Koestler wanted to see the origin of the eastern European Jewry. Nevertheless, all the historical and linguistic facts contradicted his theories.

(edited 7 years ago)

Reply 51

simbasdragon

Original post by Youngmetro

Again I repeat, 'Operation protective edge.' It was on BBC News, ITV and Sky news every hour upon the hour broadcast live on TV for days and days. Similarly, Israeli attacks are also broadcast as breaking news on the websites of the BBC especially. I don't selectively pick what I read, yet I'm still faced constantly with news on the region as it often takes a prominent position and focal point by news outlets on-line and on TV.

Reply 52

simbasdragon

Original post by TheSuingEU

Atheists cant be a part of "Judaism"

According to Judaism itself, yes they can. Judaism is based upon maternal lineage, so if one's mother is Jewish then so is the offspring. Some anthropologists categorise Judaism as an ethno-religion due to Jews historically living in ghettos and so being almost isolated from a non-Jewish gene pool, making Judaism more akin to a race. However, ever since eugenics this idea of Jews as a racial group has become murkier, making many members uncomfortable

I am an atheist, yet due to my lineage and culture, I am still Jewish.

Reply 53

Youngmetro

Original post by simbasdragon

Yes, on dedicated channels as i said. Most conflicts attract a certain level of media attention and there is often updates. Its still under reported.

Reply 54

simbasdragon

Original post by Youngmetro

Yes, on dedicated channels as i said. Most conflicts attract a certain level of media attention and there is often updates. Its still under reported.

I wouldn't regard the BBC, ITV and Sky as 'dedicated channels,' which ones would you consider mainstream if not those? Many argue that the Israeli government's actions receive a disproportionate amount of media attention compared to those of Palestinian terrorists, how can both simultaneously claim the opposite?

Reply 55

Youngmetro

Original post by simbasdragon

Im talking about the actual 'BBC News' channel that virtually no one watches. Mainstream is the 10 o'clock news channel on BBC 1 where only an occasional special report with compelling details are shown. Ironically the BBC have been accused of israel bias because of their attempt to stay away from being accused of anti semitism, again another example of this culture that has been created.

I think arguably most people believe Israel are the one in wrong here. The actions of even the apparent 'innocent' israeli jews are despicable whilst the Palestinians are constantly oppressed as we speak. So it isnt very disproportionate.

Reply 56

troubadour.

Much of this list is asking readers to be ridiculously overcautious in what they say in order that they might avoid a tangential reference to some historical injustice, not to mention forbidding things which are more frequently indulged in by defenders of Israel ('don't use the Holocaust to score political points'). This is almost the definition of 'much ado about nothing.'

(edited 7 years ago)

Reply 57

TheArtofProtest

Original post by simbasdragon

I have always found such aspects to be a troubling, conflicting and contradictory position within antiSemitism.

Is it anti-Semitic if I criticise the Torah, or the Talmud, for example by referring to all Jews?

Or is it anti-Semitic if I am racist towards Jews from a racial point of view, rather than a religious point of view?

Is this murky position an intentional attempt to blur the lines, and to stop criticism of Jews as a racial group, and as a religion?

Reply 58

homicidalwaffle

Original post by simbasdragon

For those unsure of where the boundaries lie between the two, this post is really informative.

http://this-is-not-jewish.tumblr.com/post/34344324495/how-to-criticize-israel-without-being-anti-semitic

give me a link thats not tumblr and i'll read

Reply 59

simbasdragon

Original post by Youngmetro

Again, I see reports constantly on mainstream channels at important hours, maybe you don't pay much attention to the news? Yet ironically there have also been investigations into what some see as an unfair bias against Israel, many argue that the BBC will simply report that 'Israel have killed a Palestinian' yet failing to report that this came in response to this Palestinian having killed Israelis. Neither side has the monopoly on truth.

What are the actions of innocent Israelis may I ask, 'innocent' being the emphasis?