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Labour caught lying (again)

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Having said that....."you don't support labour because you're a bit of a xenophobe." lol. Probably one of the most childish and delusional Labour-type statement I've read. In a nut shell the attitude why Labour are lightyears away from getting anywhere near power.

Having re-read the OP I retract that statement. I skim read it and though they were complain that leaflets were in polish, not that they were translated funny for pro EU slant. OP wasn't xenophobic.

However, people like what I thought the OP were are in abundance. They are "a bit of a xenoophobe". It describes what they don't like.

Obviously calling them xenophobes is not a strategy to try and get them to vote labour. It does depend on the person. If they are someone that doesn't want to be xenophobic it is possible to engage in a rational calm debate about the topic in my experience. Without insulting anyone. Others will require different methods. All political parties different messages for different people, often geared around manipulating people on your side. All we can just pander to it and punish immigrants and foreigners for no reason. Maybe a bit of blue labour, I don't really want blue labour though. I'd rather have third way New Labour than that.

(edited 7 years ago)

Reply 21

simon_g

Original post by DanteTheDoorKnob

You would never support Labour because they made one bad decision?

nope. if one would disclassify parties because they've made 1 mistake there would be no voting.

Original post by DanteTheDoorKnob

It's reasonable for them to have printed such information in Polish, given that you are right they might speak English, but they almost certainly speak Polish, sounds clever to me.

Although I do understand the rationale, I do not agree with that.One cannot integrate (not to mention- assimilate) without knowing local language (in UK it's pretty much English only from the point of view of immigrants). If you translate everything for migrants, they will never learn language- sure, some who actively wish to assimilate will do that anyway, but plenty of them simply won't bother. why should they?

Original post by DanteTheDoorKnob

If they were clever they would have hired one of them to write the thing in the first place.

Oh, that's the truth. it couldn't cost that much (i'd do it for free tbh, if I would be asked).

Original post by JamesN88

They printed it as a bullet point under a heading entitled "THE LABOUR PARTY - Wsparice Partiu" which(according to Google Translate) translates to "THE LABOUR PARTY - Support Batch".

Actually, it's "Wsparcie Partii" which indeed also means "support batch"- but "partia" (feminine, nominative) has got few meanings in Polish.And that's another reason why machine translation sucks.

Original post by mackemforever

Why is them printing leaflets in Polish such a bad thing?

As you have been given answer already, it makes people less motivated to learn language.Common, shared language is essential to integrating- I have no doubt about it, neither should you.

Original post by mackemforever

Of course there are huge numbers of Poles in this country who speak good English but there are also a huge number who either don't speak any or who speak very limited English. Why is it such a bad thing to try and make this kind of information more accessible to them?

It's a bad thing because, at least in this case- someone who isn't even integrated shouldn't vote (primo); secundo- as it was written before- by translating everything you make people less motivated to learn local lingo. Sure- Police stations, E&A, Hospitals- there should be information available in them in as many languages as possible (becuase you don't know if one who needs help is a tourist or are they living here, not to metion that costs of mis-understanding are too high to risk it)- but everything else should be in local languages.Instead of spending money (a lot of it) on translation there should be more ESOL courses- they should also take place at hours more suitable for people working shifts (lets face it- for someone with really limited language and having no skills factory/farm work is the only one available).At my work I had "Adult Literacy" course- it was free (of charge), 2 hours per week. It helped me a lot with proper(-ish) pronucation, it's helped me defeat the fear/shame of talking (reading) English to the English person.

Original post by Good bloke

That is easy to answer. Any significant activity to help non-English speakers who live here (rather than tourist and business visitors) acts as a disincentive to them to learn the language and to fully integrate. They are consequently likely to be slower to do so.

Righto.I personally know people who live here for 10 years, who's closed themselves in Polish/Latvian/Lithuanian/Russian ghetto and now cannot even write a simple facebook post without spelling and grammar mistake(s).Have you (or other interlokutor of mine in this thread) noticed how many houses have a satellite dish with "cyfrowy Polsat" ("digital Polsat") on it? it's black with gold/yellow text on it. A lot of people (well... I'll discuss mostly Polish communities) simply do not intermix with others; they watch Polish TV (even British movies/dramas with Polish "lektor" /voice-over-sort-of-dubbing/), Polish news etc. not to mention Polish shops growing everywhere- fair enough if someone wish to buy a proper sausage or products unavailable in local shops, but buying "polish" washing liquid, eggs, mineral water- well... their money, their right.

Original post by ChaoticButterfly

You don;t support labour because you are a bit of a xenophobe.

ooh, whe've got a badass over here!

Original post by ChaoticButterfly

Go to any western European country and they will have tourist leaflets, menus and books etc in English as well as their local languages.

I don't give a damn about private places- if they wish they have pring leaflets in swahili. But you forgot one thing- like it or not, but it's English that's the biggest and more important international language. Was it always English? Will it always be it? of course not. but it is now, and we live now.

Original post by ChaoticButterfly

I knew a Danish girl who was over hear learning english so she could study chemistry back home where the textbooks and course is in English.

between 90 to 98% of world scientific literature is produced in English. Like it or not (btw, I recommend "Scientific Babel. Language of science from the fall of Latin to the rise of English" by MD Gordin- an excellent book about languages in science). If ones wish to achieve anything (apart from the basics) in science, one has to be fluent in "scientific English".

Original post by ChaoticButterfly

English speaking natives who complain about a mix of languages coexisting in their country are so incredibly entitled and whiny when you look at how prevalent their native language is around the world.

Oh, I'm flattered you think my English is as good as native's one (seriously)!But no, English isn't my native tongue. It's my main language, true (not surprising that much as I live in the England after all...) but it's not my native.And it's true that neither English nor Americans are known for their bilingual skills, true, but it doesn't mean it's something good.

Original post by JamesN88

The Poles do learn English. All of the ones I've met have anyway.

You were lucky then. Or maybe, because you are (my assumption) British the ones who don't care about integration simply have no contact with you (no, i do not blame you by any meanings!). Although there are plenty of Poles whose language skills are good enough for every-day tasks (watching tv, reading newspapers etc) there is probably as many (or even more) ones who would struggle with reading of the post you read now.

Original post by KimKallstrom

Labour treat all working class people like handicapped morons. That's why they only trust the working class to live within a welfare trap instead of allowing them the conditions to become self-sufficient

oh, that's true.but the thing that irritates me the most is blanket treating every "Eastern European" in the same way, as if all of them wish the UK to remain in the UE.Surprise, surprise of those who are interested in politics- and care about actually getting full voting rights- plenty of them do not support UK staying in UE (as we know it now).

Original post by KimKallstrom

UK is actually well ahead of the curve with sort of thing, which is good because not everybody is going to be fluent fresh off the boat. Integration is never instant and people should be helped at first in reasonable ways such as this.

True. One could always bring a friend/proffesional tranlator (and paid them from their own pocket) to a bank. I did it, because my skills were not up to the job. I've helped some in similar position.

Reply 22

username1560589

I don't see a problem with them writing it in Polish. Addressing someone in their native language is a nice gesture, even if they do speak English. They should obviously have got it correct though.

They support staying in the EU, so it's more likely just them saying that they support staying in the EU and the bad translation changing the meaning slightly(if the distinction exists in Polish).

Reply 23

JamesN88

Original post by KimKallstrom

I'm no lover of the Tories either man but reality is what it is. Labour is meant to be the party of the working person. The clue is in the name. But times change right?

I just hope that sanity returns after they get wiped out in 2020.

Reply 24

Jammy Duel

Original post by ChaoticButterfly

You don;t support labour because you are a bit of a xenophobe.

Go to any western European country and they will have tourist leaflets, menus and books etc in English as well as their local languages. I knew a Danish girl who was over hear learning english so she could study chemistry back home where the textbooks and course is in English. English speaking natives who complain about a mix of languages coexisting in their country are so incredibly entitled and whiny when you look at how prevalent their native language is around the world.

This is what the future is going to look like. Grow up.

Last I checked tourists aren't allowed to vote so you are making a bit of a moot point, unless you expect political parties to waste money trying to convince foreigners with no voting rights to vote.

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