High achieving student from a working class background with a criminal record

OP

would appreciate any responses

Reply 2

Abstract_Prism

20

I recall there was a judge recently who let a student off for cannabis so that they could pursue a legal career.

Just assert that you were only doing it to fund your studies.

Reply 3

studos

3

Original post by GreenOut

Hi

do NOT mention here that you want a bank, accountancy or law career as some idiot nazis will accuse you that you are after money, that you don't have commitment, that you will never find a job in a bank or law etc

(edited 7 years ago)

Reply 4

OP

Original post by Abstract_Prism

I recall there was a judge recently who let a student off for cannabis so that they could pursue a legal career.

Just assert that you were only doing it to fund your studies.

let the student off for posession? or intent to supply?

Original post by studos

do NOT mention here that you want a bank, accountancy or law career as some idiot nazis will accuse you that you are after money, that you don't have commitment, that you will never find a job in a bank or law etc

lol i just want a better quality of life and some security - looking like I won't be getting that now

Original post by GreenOut

..........

I suspect that banking, accountancy and law will be very difficult to break into with a criminal record for intent to supply, because they all have relatively stringent background checking and ethical codes. Engineering is likely to be much less of an issue. Wait and see what happens, and then ask the Careers Centre at UCL for advice, they'll have met the issue before.

Reply 6

OP

Original post by threeportdrift

I suspect that banking, accountancy and law will be very difficult to break into with a criminal record for intent to supply, because they all have relatively stringent background checking and ethical codes. Engineering is likely to be much less of an issue. Wait and see what happens, and then ask the Careers Centre at UCL for advice, they'll have met the issue before.

I see, thanks for your advice.

I wanted to know whether I should even let UCL know, they might try and f me over seeing as I'm going to be convicted soon anyway.... if they don't I should just apply for extenuating circumstances for my exams LOL as my exams are now and the arrest was a few days ago and I spent roughly 16hrs in a cell

Original post by GreenOut

..........

Yeah, right! If I was you, I'd keep my head down and sort my own life out.

Reply 8

Original post by GreenOut

Hi,

I'm in my 3rd year at UCL studying Engineering and am expected to graduate with a 2.i BEng this year or a 2.i MEng next year.

I'm reasonably high achieving (A*AB chem,maths,fmaths AL - 4A*5A GCSE) and am from a working class background.

I got arrested recently and am on bail but am probably getting charged with posession and intent to supply controlled class B substances (cannabis) and according to my solicitor, will probably end up being sentenced to community service.... This has sorta messed me up.. I wanted to know whether I can still expect to land a decent graduate job at a bank, accountancy firm, law firm etc.... considering my offence and subsequent punishment?

Or is the system going to force me to become a career criminal now? JK

The short answer for law is that if interested you will need to join the Law Society if you wnat to enter the profession. You have to fill forms out for the regulator, the SRA and you have to declare any criminal convictions.

Lets assume you get either a community order or a fine.

Under a normal job you get the benefit of Rehabilitation of Offenders Act 74, which means you dont have to reveal certain convictions after a certain period has passed. For law they ask you to disclose everything and they cna do an enhanced DBS check in you due to the nature if the profession, which means everything will show up.

So you have to declare it. This then goes before the SRA and they consider whether to admit you.on a suitability test. I dont think you have anything to worry about as they are most interested in crimes of violence, sex, racism, dishonesty and abuse of positions of trust. Yours is none of those, so Imo you would be ok.

Many people get let into the profession on more serious offences than yours.
If you then wnated to apply to law firms for a TC, they may ask you to disclose on their application form. If they do you have to disclose. They may just rely on the SRA. Do not lie if asked because if they find out you lied you can be immediately dismissed.

Its up to the law firm how they take it, but as its not one of the categories above they worry about, then it shouldnt rule you out. That said because law is so competitive and the margins fine, then they may ake a dim view of a criminal record when up against another candidate who has a clean one. I dont think it will have much impact, so best not to worry about it.

I expect the other professions follow a similar process. They will be most worried about dishonesty and abuse of trust crimes, then violence, sex, racial abuse etc.

PS A community order or fine is spent after 1 year.

PPS It might cause difficulties getting into the US.

PPPS theres nothing wrong being motivated by money, just make sure you have the skills they want and arent incredibly rude.

Reply 9

OP

Original post by 999tigger

...

Thank you for the detailed response, do you happen to be a defence lawyer or something lolol you seem to know your stuff.

If you don't mind, could u answer some questions wrt the reply you wrote above, please?

1) So after 1 year from completing my community order, I won't have to declare my conviction for any of the professions in my OP except law?
2) Do you know what sort of crimes fall under 'Dishonesty & abuse of trust'?
3) You say many people have gotten in with worse offences than mine, do you happen to have any examples (for peace of mind lol)

Your post has heartened me slightly, again, thank you.

Original post by GreenOut

...........

I think 999tigger may have under-estimated the 'with intent to supply' element. In my experience of HR decisions, 'personal use' can often be excused when hiring, 'intent to supply' rarely is - it crosses a boundary many employers will not cross.

I presume you have seen this - which doesn't directly answer your question, but gives you an idea of sentencing and the language to do some more research on your own specific situation - http://www.sentencingcouncil.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/Drug_Offences_Definitive_Guideline_final_web1.pdf

Reply 11

Original post by threeportdrift

I think 999tigger may have under-estimated the 'with intent to supply' element. In my experience of HR decisions, 'personal use' can often be excused when hiring, 'intent to supply' rarely is - it crosses a boundary many employers will not cross.

I presume you have seen this - which doesn't directly answer your question, but gives you an idea of sentencing and the language to do some more research on your own specific situation - http://www.sentencingcouncil.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/Drug_Offences_Definitive_Guideline_final_web1.pdf

I cant comment because I dont know the exact details of what hes charged with and the surrounding facts. I was going off what his solicitor had told him who would seem to have an advantage in knowing the case details.

If he got a fine or a community order, then the buffer period before it is spent under the ROHA is 1 year. It starts getting trickier if they were imprisoned. From that time he doesnt have to disclose it and it would only come out if it was in certain limited professions that require or are permitted to request an enhanced DBS seach. That means on a basic DBS search HR would never see it.

In respect of the rest I was commenting on how a particular professional body reviews the situation and what offences they pay more attention to. Its not how I regard it, its their guidelines.

Its an entirely different question as how HR react if his record shows.

Reply 12

Original post by GreenOut

Thank you for the detailed response, do you happen to be a defence lawyer or something lolol you seem to know your stuff.

If you don't mind, could u answer some questions wrt the reply you wrote above, please?

1) So after 1 year from completing my community order, I won't have to declare my conviction for any of the professions in my OP except law?
2) Do you know what sort of crimes fall under 'Dishonesty & abuse of trust'?
3) You say many people have gotten in with worse offences than mine, do you happen to have any examples (for peace of mind lol)

Your post has heartened me slightly, again, thank you.

1. After 1 year from the end of the sentence it will be considered spent and you dont have to declare it.
Im not sure about the other professions. If they have a right to conduct an enhanced DBS search then it will show spent or not.

Heres a quick summary of ROHA

https://nationalcareersservice.direct.gov.uk/advice/planning/Pages/convictions.aspx

2. Things like theft, fraud and deception.

3. They judge it on a case by case basis. You will need to decide what profession then look up the decisions of the relevant regulatory body.

Apologies for it being the Sun, but Louise Woodward was the nanny who was convicted in the US of second degree murder (later reduced to manslaughter)
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/83249/Baby-killer-to-besolicitor.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louise_Woodward_case

As pointed out above, if you have to disclose it because someone makes an enhanced search or its unspent, then the employer cna make their own mind up. thats the pain of having a criminal record.

Reply 13

OP

Original post by threeportdrift

I think 999tigger may have under-estimated the 'with intent to supply' element. In my experience of HR decisions, 'personal use' can often be excused when hiring, 'intent to supply' rarely is - it crosses a boundary many employers will not cross.

I presume you have seen this - which doesn't directly answer your question, but gives you an idea of sentencing and the language to do some more research on your own specific situation - http://www.sentencingcouncil.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/Drug_Offences_Definitive_Guideline_final_web1.pdf

Do you get many applications from people charged with intent to know this?

Original post by 999tigger

1. After 1 year from the end of the sentence it will be considered spent and you dont have to declare it.
Im not sure about the other professions. If they have a right to conduct an enhanced DBS search then it will show spent or not.

Heres a quick summary of ROHA

https://nationalcareersservice.direct.gov.uk/advice/planning/Pages/convictions.aspx

2. Things like theft, fraud and deception.

3. They judge it on a case by case basis. You will need to decide what profession then look up the decisions of the relevant regulatory body.

Apologies for it being the Sun, but Louise Woodward was the nanny who was convicted in the US of second degree murder (later reduced to manslaughter)
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/83249/Baby-killer-to-besolicitor.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louise_Woodward_case

As pointed out above, if you have to disclose it because someone makes an enhanced search or its unspent, then the employer cna make their own mind up. thats the pain of having a criminal record.

thanks for all your help.... guess I'll have to apply myself and see, going to take a loong time lol, my bail date isnt for another 6 or so weeks yet, then i'll find out whether or not im being charged, and be handed a court date, then after that trial i may be excused or handed a sentencing date, then after the sentencing date I can start the punishment, then finish it and wait another year for it to become spent.... wow lol

Reply 14

Focus on your exams and then you cna deal with the rest after. If its a community sentence or less, then thats nothing. The criminal record is more problematic if you want to enter certain professions. Thats the risk you took. Be very careful about not answering their questions about convictions truthfully as if you fail to disclose or lie, then thats going to be treated as or more seriously than your original conviction. Thats why you need to learn what your rights are.

Original post by GreenOut

Do you get many applications from people charged with intent to know this?

You don't have to get applications - it's a relatively common discussion in HR in organisations that require background or DBS checks. Every time there is a news report about someone denied a job because they had a 30 year old shop lifting offence from when they were 13 or when a paedophile evades DBS checking etc, the same conversations start up in HR about what that particular organisation might take as a threshold in various circumstances - you need to be objective and fair.

Where drugs are concerned, 'intent to supply' has always, in my recollection, been seen as the wrong side of a threshold (assuming it's not a zero tolerance organisation, of which there are fewer and fewer). I've worked in public services, schools and universities - not commercial organisations.

Reply 16

OP

Original post by 999tigger

Focus on your exams and then you cna deal with the rest after. If its a community sentence or less, then thats nothing. The criminal record is more problematic if you want to enter certain professions. Thats the risk you took. Be very careful about not answering their questions about convictions truthfully as if you fail to disclose or lie, then thats going to be treated as or more seriously than your original conviction. Thats why you need to learn what your rights are.

Yeah I've got my last exam in 2 hours, hopefully it goes well, can't lie my head has been in the clouds over the last few days but I've still managed to focus reasonably well (considering the circumstances). It looks like I'll have to conduct further research and speak to UCL careers to get a better understanding of mmy situation. Thank u for all ur help

Original post by threeportdrift

You don't have to get applications - it's a relatively common discussion in HR in organisations that require background or DBS checks. Every time there is a news report about someone denied a job because they had a 30 year old shop lifting offence from when they were 13 or when a paedophile evades DBS checking etc, the same conversations start up in HR about what that particular organisation might take as a threshold in various circumstances - you need to be objective and fair.

Where drugs are concerned, 'intent to supply' has always, in my recollection, been seen as the wrong side of a threshold (assuming it's not a zero tolerance organisation, of which there are fewer and fewer). I've worked in public services, schools and universities - not commercial organisations.

I see, thank you for your insight. COuld you tell me what sort of institutions are zero-tolerance? And how the heck does a paedophile dodge a DBS lol .... I have considered a career as a lecturer at UCL, though now I doubt i'd be able to get on a relevant PhD anyway

Reply 17

SlowlorisIncognito

Original post by GreenOut

Hi,

I'm in my 3rd year at UCL studying Engineering and am expected to graduate with a 2.i BEng this year or a 2.i MEng next year.

I'm reasonably high achieving (A*AB chem,maths,fmaths AL - 4A*5A GCSE) and am from a working class background.

I got arrested recently and am on bail but am probably getting charged with posession and intent to supply controlled class B substances (cannabis) and according to my solicitor, will probably end up being sentenced to community service.... This has sorta messed me up.. I wanted to know whether I can still expect to land a decent graduate job at a bank, accountancy firm, law firm etc.... considering my offence and subsequent punishment?

Or is the system going to force me to become a career criminal now? JK

As others have said, the intent to supply is going to be the real sticking point for a lot of employers. Even if, in theory, having the conviction won't bar you from the profession entirely, most financial/legal firms are likely to er on the side of caution with this kind of conviction. The intent to supply is often seen as evidence of dishonesty/not being a fit and proper person.

Have you considered pleading guilty to the possession charge only? I'd suggest at least discussing this option with your solicitor.

Is there a reason you don't want to go for a career in engineering?

Reply 18

OP

Original post by SlowlorisIncognito

As others have said, the intent to supply is going to be the real sticking point for a lot of employers. Even if, in theory, having the conviction won't bar you from the profession entirely, most financial/legal firms are likely to er on the side of caution with this kind of conviction. The intent to supply is often seen as evidence of dishonesty/not being a fit and proper person.

Have you considered pleading guilty to the possession charge only? I'd suggest at least discussing this option with your solicitor.

Is there a reason you don't want to go for a career in engineering?

I'm going to discuss with my solictor on Monday. I didn't want to be an engineer in this country as they are not financially rewarded to the same extent as other employment sectors, despite being required to much more difficult work. Though if it seems like the only feasible route into respectable employment, I don't really have the luxury of ruling it out.

Are engineering firms not as stringent on background as other firms?

Reply 19