Unemployed to be fined if they refuse job offers!

Ambitious1999

Just read that the unemployed could be fined for being unemployed :angry:

http://thisisengland.org.uk/now-thats-how-to-deal-with-scroungers-putin-installs-tax-on-unemployed-who-refuse-work/

Britain started this with its cruel sanctions system where a sanction is effectively a fine for being jobless. But I'm surprised that Russia has gone further than our harsh system.

I think its a bad idea especially in the country that invented welfare under Lenin in 1917. Right through the Stalin years jobless they were able to get dole money but in these supposedly more liberal times they're actually being punished for being jobless. So things now are actually worse than they were under Stalin :frown:

Reply 1

999tigger

19

Ambitious stop trolling. Sanctions are in place for people who dont comply with the terms of their benefits agreement. Its not a fine for simply being unemployed.

Reply 2

scorpion95

20

I don't think that it is that bad to be honest, there are plenty of jobs out there people are just too picky about jobs. If they genuinely can't get the job then they shouldn't be but if they are going there and making a bad impression so they don't get the job then yes they should get fined then after 2 or 3 times if still fail then they loose dole money altogher

Reply 3

BodhiUtah

2

No more free lunches you peasant scum..... Get your hands of my taxes peasants!

Reply 4

geolowiser

13

Clear misunderstanding of the whole concept. Stopping or reducing benefits for those on JSA who refuse jobs could be considered exactly the same thing but people didn't care before. If someone who has been on JSA for 6 months refuses every job offer they get then why should the government waste their money. People have to stop thinking of these parts of the welfare system as a basic human right. Having the right to be employed is not the same as thinking it is the government's responsibility to find them a job they want to do.

If the government gives someone £1000 in JSA over months and months then why on earth is stopping payments or asking for some of that money back a bad thing.

Reply 5

Kaneki

12

Although the £200 fine is a bit of a fine line whether it's right or not, I don't think people should continue to receive any benefits if they refuse work without valid reasoning (childcare arrangements etc).

People who have nothing are too picky because they'd rather watch TV on their 40 inch, state owned flat screen.

Yes a stereotype, but like most it's derived from some truth.

Reply 6

geolowiser

13

Original post by BodhiUtah

No more free lunches you peasant scum..... Get your hands of my taxes peasants!

Crikey. Easy tiger. Given that you're on TSR I'm assuming student who doesn't pay taxes and is in education at the cost of the government?

Reply 7

donte

14

I agree and dont agree.

If a single parent with kids knows that they will definitely need £x amount to live off and they are given job offers which are far less than that, that would be an issue. Also people could be have a Doctorate in a specific field and yet are required to get a crap job working in poundland. ( i know im using exaggerated examples here but you get my point).

For the people that sit on their arses all day and have never worked a day in their life deserve this, but some people genuinely fall on hard times and this is going to make a bad situation far worse.

Reply 8

Ambitious1999

OP

20

Original post by 999tigger

Ambitious stop trolling. Sanctions are in place for people who dont comply with the terms of their benefits agreement. Its not a fine for simply being unemployed.

People are given fixed sanctions for minor mistakes like being a few mins late to a job centre appointment. The sanction is fixed from 3 months to 3 years and cannot be lifted no matter how much you comply afterwards so it is like a fine.

If you apply for one less job than required one week (Jobseekers must apply for min of 7 jobs a week) despite normally applying for 30 jobs a week then applying for 50 jobs a week after will not get a 3 month sanction lifted! Staff are on targets to issue as many sanctions as possible and you need to consider that the jobless are the poorest in society.

There is no carrot and stick just stick stick and more stick.

Reply 9

username944192

21

Original post by Ambitious1999

People are given fixed sanctions for minor mistakes like being a few mins late to a job centre appointment. The sanction is fixed from 3 months to 3 years and cannot be lifted no matter how much you comply afterwards so it is like a fine.

If you apply for one less job than required one week (Jobseekers must apply for min of 7 jobs a week) despite normally applying for 30 jobs a week then applying for 50 jobs a week after will not get a 3 month sanction lifted! Staff are on targets to issue as many sanctions as possible and you need to consider that the jobless are the poorest in society.

There is no carrot and stick just stick stick and more stick.

Oh boo hoo. You're getting free money, the least you can do is comply with what they're asking. If you don't comply, don't moan if you don't get the money. If I was going on JSA and living on other people's money I would definitely make sure I was a) on time to the appointment, it's the least you can do and b) applying for 7 jobs a week is not a lot. If you're unemployed you have more than enough time to do that. No excuses for either of those, don't comply, don't get the money end of.

Reply 10

999tigger

19

Original post by Ambitious1999

People are given fixed sanctions for minor mistakes like being a few mins late to a job centre appointment. The sanction is fixed from 3 months to 3 years and cannot be lifted no matter how much you comply afterwards so it is like a fine.

If you apply for one less job than required one week (Jobseekers must apply for min of 7 jobs a week) despite normally applying for 30 jobs a week then applying for 50 jobs a week after will not get a 3 month sanction lifted! Staff are on targets to issue as many sanctions as possible and you need to consider that the jobless are the poorest in society.

There is no carrot and stick just stick stick and more stick.

You arent going to get sanctioned for being a few minutes late. its still the persons responsibility to turn up on time. the minimum sanction is not 3 months go and look it up and stop pedalling incorrect information. I pointed this out to you last time.

The first sanction is 4 weeks not 3 months.

You can appeal it if its been incorrectly imposed.

JSA is done via actions per week. Its up to the person to do the required minimum of actions, which are normally 20 per week.

Sanctions may be unfair or enthusiastically enforced by some offices and individuals, but you misrepresent the situation and use inaccurate information as usual, which is really annoying. I have think as you are so consistently wrong that you are just a troll.

https://www.turn2us.org.uk/Benefit-guides/Jobseeker-s-Allowance-%28JSA%29-sanctions/What-are-JSA-sanctions#guide-content

(edited 7 years ago)

Reply 11

Ambitious1999

OP

20

Original post by infairverona

Oh boo hoo. You're getting free money, the least you can do is comply with what they're asking. If you don't comply, don't moan if you don't get the money. If I was going on JSA and living on other people's money I would definitely make sure I was a) on time to the appointment, it's the least you can do and b) applying for 7 jobs a week is not a lot. If you're unemployed you have more than enough time to do that. No excuses for either of those, don't comply, don't get the money end of.

I agree but giving someone a 4 week to 3 year sanction without the opportunity to get the sanction removed if they comply and improve their behaviour is wrong. I believe in short sanctions that are removed on compliance.

(edited 7 years ago)

Reply 12

username944192

21

Original post by Ambitious1999

I agree but giving someone a 4 week to 3 year sanction without the opportunity to get the sanction removed if they comply and improve their behaviour is wrong. I believe in short sanctions that are removed on compliance.

Well they need some way of deterring repeat offenders don't they? You can't just do as they say one week and then stop the next, then start again. It's farcical. You're being given free money to look for jobs, effectively your job is to job seek and that is what you should do if you want the payment. If you turned up late to work all the time and didn't do set tasks by the deadline you're given you'd be sacked. Jobseekers obviously isn't a real job but if you're taking it seriously and doing as you're asked in return for the free money, you have no reason to fear sanctions

Reply 13

Dodgypirate

6

I don't know about you, but I think it's fair.

Reply 14

geolowiser

13

Lol this article is from the same website that claimed: 80% of Brits would be happy to quit UK for RUSSIA after Putin offers free land.

I'm sorry who was it that you interviewed? Classic trash from a shitty news website designed to click bait bigotted morons.

Reply 15

Stiff Little Fingers

21

Original post by Kaneki

Although the £200 fine is a bit of a fine line whether it's right or not, I don't think people should continue to receive any benefits if they refuse work without valid reasoning (childcare arrangements etc).

People who have nothing are too picky because they'd rather watch TV on their 40 inch, state owned flat screen.

Yes a stereotype, but like most it's derived from some truth.

It really isn't, people who have nothing aren't too picky about employment - they'll take anything they can get.

Also, it's not even a fine line as to whether it's right or not, it's quite evidently wrong. It's a fine for not paying income tax, whether the job offers have been coming in or not is irrelevant, whether they're actually capable of work seemingly is also irrelevant. It will have absolutely no benefit and will amount to nothing more than creating more destitution and poverty.

Reply 16

Ambitious1999

OP

20

Original post by 999tigger

You arent going to get sanctioned for being a few minutes late. its still the persons responsibility to turn up on time. the minimum sanction is not 3 months go and look it up and stop pedalling incorrect information. I pointed this out to you last time.

The first sanction is 4 weeks not 3 months.

You can appeal it if its been incorrectly imposed.

JSA is done via actions per week. Its up to the person to do the required minimum of actions, which are normally 20 per week.

Sanctions may be unfair or enthusiastically enforced by some offices and individuals, but you misrepresent the situation and use inaccurate information as usual, which is really annoying. I have think as you are so consistently wrong that you are just a troll.

https://www.turn2us.org.uk/Benefit-guides/Jobseeker-s-Allowance-%28JSA%29-sanctions/What-are-JSA-sanctions#guide-content

Anyway the main issue of the thread is about what is happening to Russian Jobseekers in Russia. I was only using UK sanctions as an example.
http://thisisengland.org.uk/now-thats-how-to-deal-with-scroungers-putin-installs-tax-on-unemployed-who-refuse-work/

Reply 17

999tigger

19

Original post by Ambitious1999

Anyway the main issue of the thread is about what is happening to Russian Jobseekers in Russia. I was only using UK sanctions as an example.
http://thisisengland.org.uk/now-thats-how-to-deal-with-scroungers-putin-installs-tax-on-unemployed-who-refuse-work/

Ambitious youve tried to use the same information before and been called up on its inaccuracy.

That website is poor as well as the way the article is written. It even gets the first sentence wrong.