Brutal Homophobic Attack in Brighton, Sussex
http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2016/05/11/man-arrested-after-brutal-homophobic-attack-on-brighton-seafront/
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I don't usually post threads like these ever but I came across this earlier and thought I should post it. People assume that everything is perfect in the Western world, that the LGBTQIA community is fully integrated, supported, and protected by the law. It is not. These sorts of attacks still happen very regularly and I thought it would be worth reinforcing that message.
Now, this is not a thread inviting debate about whether or not being gay is right, whether or not its LGBT or LGBTQIA, whether or not T is a sexuality, and whether or not free speech is being limited by laws protecting homosexuals and so on. People often go into these things on such threads - don't, please.
It would be nice to discuss what you think about the gay rights movement and whether or not it has achieved its goals, why things like this still happen, and whether or not it is taken seriously enough.
- - - - - - - - -
I don't usually post threads like these ever but I came across this earlier and thought I should post it. People assume that everything is perfect in the Western world, that the LGBTQIA community is fully integrated, supported, and protected by the law. It is not. These sorts of attacks still happen very regularly and I thought it would be worth reinforcing that message.
Now, this is not a thread inviting debate about whether or not being gay is right, whether or not its LGBT or LGBTQIA, whether or not T is a sexuality, and whether or not free speech is being limited by laws protecting homosexuals and so on. People often go into these things on such threads - don't, please.
It would be nice to discuss what you think about the gay rights movement and whether or not it has achieved its goals, why things like this still happen, and whether or not it is taken seriously enough.
Scroll to see replies
I think the fact that they are gay is irrelevant. This sort of violence against any human is immoral and illegal. The world is not perfect, but it is closer to perfection in "the West".
Original post by Arkasia
The movement has achieved most of its goals, and is now fragmenting with the new shift to focus on Trans issues.
Things like this happen because there will always be mugs with intolerant views and a closed fist.
Yes, it is taken seriously enough.
Things like this happen because there will always be mugs with intolerant views and a closed fist.
Yes, it is taken seriously enough.
If it is taken seriously enough, why do schools, officials and families still shy away from the issues? Why in a country like the UK which prides itself on tolerance and equality, does only one fixed law exist to prevent discrimination? I realised recently from research that most of the UK's gender and sexuality laws are variable from region to region of the country and not fixed.
That is not an attack by the way - I'm giving you things to build a response back to and think about
. I think you are right about trans issues and that these things will always happen.
Yeah, it doesn't matter what you think of homosexuality, anyone who isn't violently homophobic can see this is horrendous, when I saw part of the thread title in the latest discussions I assumed it would be in somewhere like Russia or Saudi Arabia, not Brighton, in a modern tolerant country and arguably one of the most LGBT-friendly cities in the country. I hope the scumbag is dealt with sufficiently, there is no place for this kind of hatred and violence in the UK 
Original post by Melancholy
I think the fact that they are gay is irrelevant. This sort of violence against any human is immoral and illegal. The world is not perfect, but it is closer to perfection in "the West".
It is very relevant because it provides the motivation for the attack. You are right that the violence on any level is unacceptable but the motives do tell us a lot and they are certainly relevant. If it was a racist, homophobic or sexist attack - that would be very relevant to understanding the issues surrounding these things. Do you agree or not, and why?
Original post by Olie
Yeah, it doesn't matter what you think of homosexuality, anyone who isn't violently homophobic can see this is horrendous, when I saw part of the thread title in the latest discussions I assumed it would be in somewhere like Russia or Saudi Arabia, not Brighton, in a modern tolerant country and arguably one of the most LGBT-friendly cities in the country. I hope the scumbag is dealt with sufficiently, there is no place for this kind of hatred and violence in the UK
I would argue it does matter to an extent.
Why do you have to be so fab' that I never have anymore reps left for you?
There always be homophobic people. But beyond any shadow of doubt the movement has achieved a lot to date and changes are about to come.
I think that people all around the world start being concerned about the rights of LGBT people and the support grows. Of course the spead of this change differs: in some countries (like Luxemburg I think) being gay is totally okay as even the president is and in some others LGBT people are being treated like criminals.
I am optimist tbh that violence against homesexuals will be limited
I think that people all around the world start being concerned about the rights of LGBT people and the support grows. Of course the spead of this change differs: in some countries (like Luxemburg I think) being gay is totally okay as even the president is and in some others LGBT people are being treated like criminals.
I am optimist tbh that violence against homesexuals will be limited
Original post by ivybridge
http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2016/05/11/man-arrested-after-brutal-homophobic-attack-on-brighton-seafront/
- - - - - - - - -
People assume that everything is perfect in the Western world, that the LGBTQIA community is fully integrated, supported, and protected by the law. It is not. These sorts of attacks still happen very regularly and I thought it would be worth reinforcing that message.
- - - - - - - - -
People assume that everything is perfect in the Western world, that the LGBTQIA community is fully integrated, supported, and protected by the law. It is not. These sorts of attacks still happen very regularly and I thought it would be worth reinforcing that message.
The LGBT community and [QIA] (whatever that means) are integrated, are supported, are protected by a plethora of laws. How can one be such a dullard?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_the_United_Kingdom
Original post by Dodgypirate
The LGBT community and [QIA] (whatever that means) are integrated, are supported, are protected by a plethora of laws. How can one be such a dullard?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_the_United_Kingdom
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_the_United_Kingdom
By law yes. Yet the social stigma and prejudice towards them from many individuals still remain.
Original post by Dodgypirate
The LGBT community and [QIA] (whatever that means) are integrated, are supported, are protected by a plethora of laws. How can one be such a dullard?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_the_United_Kingdom
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_the_United_Kingdom
I explicitly said this wasn't the place for such comments. Don't insult me and don't state things like that as a matter of fact. Use government sources also to back your point - the LGBTQIA community has reached near success in those fields but not total success as incidents like this convey. The community also does not have a plethora of strongly enforced protections and laws.
Original post by champ_mc99
By law yes. Yet the social stigma and prejudice towards them from many individuals still remain.
There will always be hate in this country/world, you can't eradicate it all because there will always be one intolerant son-of-a-bitch.
Original post by ivybridge
If it is taken seriously enough, why do schools, officials and families still shy away from the issues? Why in a country like the UK which prides itself on tolerance and equality, does only one fixed law exist to prevent discrimination? I realised recently from research that most of the UK's gender and sexuality laws are variable from region to region of the country and not fixed.
That is not an attack by the way - I'm giving you things to build a response back to and think about.
I think you are right about trans issues and that these things will always happen.
That is not an attack by the way - I'm giving you things to build a response back to and think about
. I think you are right about trans issues and that these things will always happen.
How do they shy away? If anything they're diving in wholeheartedly. Anti-discrimination laws, tightened control of what is seen as bullying and harassment, planned increases and implementation of sexual education course (and by extension gender education). Aside from the usual cohort of 12 year old boys calling their friends gay for having a certain haircut or pair of shoes, the school system is far, far more welcoming and inclusive to the LGBT+ movement and individuals. Which law are you referring to? The Equality Act of 2010? That's just the umbrella law for a list of legislation dating back decades, including the Sexual Discrimination Act 1975, Employment Equality (Orientation) Act 2003, Equality Act 2006, and Equality Act 2007. The reason only one exists is similar to how only one or two Acts really exist in the legal framework protecting freedom of speech - you don't need lots when one or two will do.
I'd be interested to hear more about the Sex and Gender differences from region to region - do you mean differences between constituent countries? (England, Wales, NI, and Scotland)?
I also think the rift between the breakaway Trans movement and the past movements for LGBT+ rights have some slight ideological differences. Often in the Trans movement concepts such as Safe Spaces, No Platforming and Trigger Warnings exist to create a culture of silencing individuals speaking out against the majority (even and especially if the individuals appear to be 'wrong'). One of the fundamental aspects of LGBT+ liberation, to me anyway, is the ability to break out from conformity, and to say and do things that go against social attitudes and expectations - to be liberated in yourself and do what you want, for yourself. This is a disappearing notion in many 'progressive' movements, of which the Trans one is unfortunately involved.
(edited 7 years ago)
Original post by Dodgypirate
There will always be hate in this country/world, you can't eradicate it all because there will always be one intolerant son-of-a-bitch.
Well yeah. That's pretty much the point of the thread.
Law isn't the only problem though, a lot of cultural/social views are still incredibly backwards. Even in the UK.
A lot of "average" people still are closet homophobes, it tends to be mostly the "chavy" areas but even outside of that a lot of people still hold these views. Needs to change, but I'm not sure how.
A lot of "average" people still are closet homophobes, it tends to be mostly the "chavy" areas but even outside of that a lot of people still hold these views. Needs to change, but I'm not sure how.
Original post by ivybridge
I explicitly said this wasn't the place for such comments. Don't insult me and don't state things like that as a matter of fact. Use government sources also to back your point - the LGBTQIA community has reached near success in those fields but not total success as incidents like this convey. The community also does not have a plethora of strongly enforced protections and laws.
The Wikipedia article has references, including government reports.
People are beaten up for being gay, religious, black, asian, arab, etc... every day. It's obviously terrible, but we can't get rid of it. We can try, but there will always be someone.
Also, I don't care if you don't want a debate.
Original post by Zargabaath
Law isn't the only problem though, a lot of cultural/social views are still incredibly backwards. Even in the UK.
A lot of "average" people still are closet homophobes, it tends to be mostly the "chavy" areas but even outside of that a lot of people still hold these views. Needs to change, but I'm not sure how.
A lot of "average" people still are closet homophobes, it tends to be mostly the "chavy" areas but even outside of that a lot of people still hold these views. Needs to change, but I'm not sure how.
I agree.
Original post by Dodgypirate
The Wikipedia article has references, including government reports.
People are beaten up for being gay, religious, black, asian, arab, etc... every day. It's obviously terrible, but we can't get rid of it. We can try, but there will always be someone.
Also, I don't care if you don't want a debate.
People are beaten up for being gay, religious, black, asian, arab, etc... every day. It's obviously terrible, but we can't get rid of it. We can try, but there will always be someone.
Also, I don't care if you don't want a debate.
Debate is fine, your approach and attitude is not. It was explicitly asked to be left at the door. Handle this with maturity. I am sparking discussion; I am fully aware we have a lot of legal protections and that I can live my life with relative ease. This was not the point.
I agree with point two.
Original post by ivybridge
http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2016/05/11/man-arrested-after-brutal-homophobic-attack-on-brighton-seafront/
- - - - - - - - -
I don't usually post threads like these ever but I came across this earlier and thought I should post it. People assume that everything is perfect in the Western world, that the LGBTQIA community is fully integrated, supported, and protected by the law. It is not. These sorts of attacks still happen very regularly and I thought it would be worth reinforcing that message.
Now, this is not a thread inviting debate about whether or not being gay is right, whether or not its LGBT or LGBTQIA, whether or not T is a sexuality, and whether or not free speech is being limited by laws protecting homosexuals and so on. People often go into these things on such threads - don't, please.
It would be nice to discuss what you think about the gay rights movement and whether or not it has achieved its goals, why things like this still happen, and whether or not it is taken seriously enough.
- - - - - - - - -
I don't usually post threads like these ever but I came across this earlier and thought I should post it. People assume that everything is perfect in the Western world, that the LGBTQIA community is fully integrated, supported, and protected by the law. It is not. These sorts of attacks still happen very regularly and I thought it would be worth reinforcing that message.
Now, this is not a thread inviting debate about whether or not being gay is right, whether or not its LGBT or LGBTQIA, whether or not T is a sexuality, and whether or not free speech is being limited by laws protecting homosexuals and so on. People often go into these things on such threads - don't, please.
It would be nice to discuss what you think about the gay rights movement and whether or not it has achieved its goals, why things like this still happen, and whether or not it is taken seriously enough.
They happen from what I hear all the time (in Brighton)
Original post by Arkasia
The movement has achieved most of its goals, and is now fragmenting with the new shift to focus on Trans issues.
Things like this happen because there will always be mugs with intolerant views and a closed fist.
Yes, it is taken seriously enough.
Things like this happen because there will always be mugs with intolerant views and a closed fist.
Yes, it is taken seriously enough.
It's achieved the goals of wealthy gender conforming cis gay white men. Funnily enough there are more people in the LGBTQ+ community than that. And why should trans people (who by the way, started the fight for rights) get dumped after helping campaign for the rights that cis LGBQ+ people have? If cis LGBQ+ people think trans people are going to stop them getting 'acceptance' then they're ********s. Cis members of the community need to fight with us because the fight's not over. If your activism only helps the most privileged in your community it's not really activism. And it's not liberation when you want to oppress people to become 'accepted'.
Original post by Arkasia
How do they shy away? If anything they're diving in wholeheartedly. Anti-discrimination laws, tightened control of what is seen as bullying and harassment, planned increases and implementation of sexual education course (and by extension gender education). Aside from the usual cohort of 12 year old boys calling their friends gay for having a certain haircut or pair of shoes, the school system is far, far more welcoming and inclusive to the LGBT+ movement and individuals. Which law are you referring to? The Equality Act of 2010? That's just the umbrella law for a list of legislation dating back decades, including the Sexual Discrimination Act 1975, Employment Equality (Orientation) Act 2003, Equality Act 2006, and Equality Act 2007. The reason only one exists is similar to how only one or two Acts really exist in the legal framework protecting freedom of speech - you don't need lots when one or two will do.
I'd be interested to hear more about the Sex and Gender differences from region to region - do you mean differences between constituent countries? (England, Wales, NI, and Scotland)?
I also think the rift between the breakaway Trans movement and the past movements for LGBT+ rights have some slight ideological differences. Often in the Trans movement concepts such as Safe Spaces, No Platforming and Trigger Warnings exist to create a culture of silencing individuals speaking out against the majority (even and especially if the individuals appear to be 'wrong'
. One of the fundamental aspects of LGBT+ liberation, to me anyway, is the ability to break out from conformity, and to say and do things that go against social attitudes and expectations - to be liberated in yourself and do what you want, for yourself. This is a disappearing notion in many 'progressive' movements, of which the Trans one is unfortunately involved.
I'd be interested to hear more about the Sex and Gender differences from region to region - do you mean differences between constituent countries? (England, Wales, NI, and Scotland)?
I also think the rift between the breakaway Trans movement and the past movements for LGBT+ rights have some slight ideological differences. Often in the Trans movement concepts such as Safe Spaces, No Platforming and Trigger Warnings exist to create a culture of silencing individuals speaking out against the majority (even and especially if the individuals appear to be 'wrong'
. One of the fundamental aspects of LGBT+ liberation, to me anyway, is the ability to break out from conformity, and to say and do things that go against social attitudes and expectations - to be liberated in yourself and do what you want, for yourself. This is a disappearing notion in many 'progressive' movements, of which the Trans one is unfortunately involved.I think the point is that these are measures with good intentioms that are not necessarily executed. I am simply sparking debate - I don't genuinely disagree all that much with your comments.
By region, I mean counties and so on.
Hmm, okay.
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