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The Liverpool FC Thread XIV

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Original post by Everglow
Southampton > Liverpool.

Had to rub this one in - sorry guys. :lol:


Brb 2 cup finals
Original post by Everglow
Depends if our squad expands or not. With its current size, it's unlikely we'll manage. But I expect we will expand - and hopefully we'll keep our prized players like Mane and Wanyama.

I hope Lovren, Lallana and Clyne are happy they transferred. :wink:


You do realise that Liverpool are in a EL final right? Lovren, Lallana and Clyne are certainly happy about that, atleast they are challenging for trophies.
Original post by Lúcio
Brb 2 cup finals


At the end of the day, look at the money spent by both teams and then get back to me with that same smugness. :sexface:

This is why teams like Southampton and Leicester are the gold of football; they're founded on hard work at low cost. Teams like Spurs, Liverpool, Chelsea, City, Utd and Arsenal think they can literally just throw money at players and buy their success. This season has given the conventional top teams a real lesson to learn.
Original post by samir12
You do realise that Liverpool are in a EL final right? Lovren, Lallana and Clyne are certainly happy about that, atleast they are challenging for trophies.


I do. But seeing the team they transferred from thinking the grass would be greener do better than the side they transferred to must be slightly discomforting lol. Lallana is the only one who's actually had any success at Liverpool. The other two can only be happy because of their payslips. And the less said about Lambert the better.
Original post by Everglow
I do. But seeing the team they transferred from thinking the grass would be greener do better than the side they transferred to must be slightly discomforting lol. Lallana is the only one who's actually had any success at Liverpool. The other two can only be happy because of their payslips. And the less said about Lambert the better.


But if Liverpool win the EL, they would have automatically done better than Southampton by qualifying for CL and winning a trophy. Besides, Liverpool have been playing weakened sides in the last few PL games to focus on Europe so we practically gave up on the PL.

Clyne has been solid for us, Lambert is a bit harsh as Liverpool was his boyhood club. Lovren actually has improved a lot under Klopp and been our most consistent CB. Lallana has improved too but I disagree that he was a success, his end product has not been good enough.
(edited 7 years ago)
Original post by samir12
But if Liverpool win the EL, they would have automatically done better than Southampton by qualifying for CL and winning a trophy. Besides, Liverpool have been playing weakened sides in the last few PL games to focus on Europe.

Clyne has been solid for us, Lambert is a bit harsh as Liverpool was his boyhood club. Lovren actually improved a lot under Klopp and been our most consistent CB. Lallana has improved too but I disagree that he was a success, his end product has not been good enough.


That's a big if. They're not even guaranteed Europa next season if they don't win it this year. That weakened side excuse doesn't work, sorry. :tongue:

He has? I've heard very little positive comment about Clyne. The fact you guys sold him to WBA is an insult to the fact it was his boyhood club and that's where he intended to retire. Lovren has been shocking, although has made improvements under Klopp yes. He's still nowhere near the quality he showed at Southampton, and he sure as hell hasn't shown value for money for you lot. Lallana has done the best out of the lot, so if you don't think he's been great, that doesn't resonate well for the others lol.
A good workout, but one which was utterly redundant in the grand scheme of things.

That'll be the last time we see Bogdan - who was beaten far too easily at his near post for Rondon's goal - and his kicking was dreadful, so I can't wait to see the back of him really. Ward should be our number two next year, and it's a shame we didn't see him through injury today.

Skrtel seemed to know that he's on his way out. He was tugging at his badge come the final whistle, but I hope we retain his partner in the heart of the defence today. Lucas was reliable and he knows the club, he's mature and helps blend the squad together by all accounts.

There's not a lot much else to say other than that. Flanagan was solid and seems to be slowly regaining fitness, and Henderson/Ings' substitutions and introductions were great to see. I hope we see the former in some state on Wednesday, but it'll come too soon for Ings. He should take heart from today and look forward to a long summer, followed by being a useful squad option for us under Klopp's first full season next campaign. I know how hard it is to recover from injury, so he's clearly worked hard to get back onto the grass before the end of May.

Elsewhere, Smith was solid - but that dive was a farce - and Stewart seemed to be playing within himself again. I'm not sure whether it's just his game, or whether he's playing within himself, but he lacks bravery and always keeps it simple - frustratingly so, at times.

Ibe's run and finish was wonderful, but surely he needs to spend next season on loan at a bottom half PL club. It'll be good for his development, because with the lack of European football (potentially), it's hard to see him getting game time for us. Brannagan played well and was encouraging, though I felt he played too deep, and Ojo/Benteke both disappointed, especially the latter's missed late chance.

Evans and Jacob got away with a lot of nasty challenges. WBA are such thugs.
Original post by Everglow
That's a big if. They're not even guaranteed Europa next season if they don't win it this year. That weakened side excuse doesn't work, sorry. :tongue:

He has? I've heard very little positive comment about Clyne. The fact you guys sold him to WBA is an insult to the fact it was his boyhood club and that's where he intended to retire. Lovren has been shocking, although has made improvements under Klopp yes. He's still nowhere near the quality he showed at Southampton, and he sure as hell hasn't shown value for money for you lot. Lallana has done the best out of the lot, so if you don't think he's been great, that doesn't resonate well for the others lol.


Well its either CL or no Europe for Liverpool. The former would be fantastic, the latter is a dissappointment but means we can focus on the PL (means tables have turned haha). Hope you guys do well though, English sides don't take it seriously enough.

Well our transfer department are **** so what can you do? :P
Perhaps I am being harsh on Lallana, its just frustrating watching him tbh, other LFC fans have been happy with him but like Lovren, he really improved only when Klopp came in. Clyne hasn't been amazing but he has been solid ever since he put on a Liverpool shirt, going forward he hasn't been great but defensively he has done the job which is why you don't hear much on him. Its the other fullback (Moreno) who attracted the attention and not in a good way lol.
(edited 7 years ago)
Original post by Everglow
That's a big if. They're not even guaranteed Europa next season if they don't win it this year. That weakened side excuse doesn't work, sorry. :tongue:

He has? I've heard very little positive comment about Clyne. The fact you guys sold him to WBA is an insult to the fact it was his boyhood club and that's where he intended to retire. Lovren has been shocking, although has made improvements under Klopp yes. He's still nowhere near the quality he showed at Southampton, and he sure as hell hasn't shown value for money for you lot. Lallana has done the best out of the lot, so if you don't think he's been great, that doesn't resonate well for the others lol.


I really wish you'd stop plaguing this thread.

Yes Soton have had a great season (by their standards) but Samir has quite rightly rebuffed your poor attempt at trolling by highlighting that it became apparent quite early on that the league was not our focus this year.

By all means, go and celebrate your 5th/6th place finish because that's as close to a trophy you're gonna get.
In the meantime we'll actually focus on a European cup final we've been preparing for...
Original post by Everglow
He has? I've heard very little positive comment about Clyne.
I've seen Clyne voted player of the season for us on Reddit (big deal considering the exaggerated affection that Coutinho and Can get). I don't think he's had a single bad game for us defensively and he's improved going forwards as the season has gone on.
Lovren has been shocking, although has made improvements under Klopp yes. He's still nowhere near the quality he showed at Southampton, and he sure as hell hasn't shown value for money for you lot.

Shocking last season, not this year. Our best CB since Klopp came in, and outstanding since the turn of the year. We've actually had a pretty sound defence in 2016. I don't think many CBs in the league have played better in that time period, and he's definitely been as good as, or better,than, he was at Soton. I don't know what you mean by value for money, 20m isn't an investment that's paid back in one season, it'll be over the course of his career at LFC.
Original post by Lúcio
I really wish you'd stop plaguing this thread.

Yes Soton have had a great season (by their standards) but Samir has quite rightly rebuffed your poor attempt at trolling by highlighting that it became apparent quite early on that the league was not our focus this year.

By all means, go and celebrate your 5th/6th place finish because that's as close to a trophy you're gonna get.
In the meantime we'll actually focus on a European cup final we've been preparing for...


Calm down my friend. I know it's a tough day to be a scouser, but remember you'll never walk alone. You can always buy someone to walk with you.

Love the excuse making for poor performance. :congrats: If you did well you'd be saying the Europa League wasn't your priority. :lol:
The difference is, Lucio, Samir and I have had an interesting discussion. You, on the other hand, are responding with some not so subtle tones of sourgrapes.

Good luck with that. :smile:
Original post by Mackay
and Stewart seemed to be playing within himself again. I'm not sure whether it's just his game, or whether he's playing within himself, but he lacks bravery and always keeps it simple - frustratingly so, at times.


That's his game. Anything more than a 20 yard pass starts to test his technique, and he rightfully doesn't test it very often. He correctly limits his forward passing and movement, cuts out the 'bravery' that you're asking for and does his work at his own pace. That doesn't mean it's the right pace for the team, but it's much better than losing the ball. He's always been a limited player and become a squad player for the first team down to good decision making on his part. For footballing ability he's a championship footballer or even below, released by Spurs and he's had 4/5 league 1 and league 2 loans. But his physique and reading of the game make him good enough to be a filler for us. He actually has more passes per game and a better pass % than both Henderson and Can, so job well done.
Original post by sell my secrets
I've seen Clyne voted player of the season for us on Reddit (big deal considering the exaggerated affection that Coutinho and Can get). I don't think he's had a single bad game for us defensively and he's improved going forwards as the season has gone on.
Shocking last season, not this year. Our best CB since Klopp came in, and outstanding since the turn of the year. We've actually had a pretty sound defence in 2016. I don't think many CBs in the league have played better in that time period, and he's definitely been as good as, or better,than, he was at Soton. I don't know what you mean by value for money, 20m isn't an investment that's paid back in one season, it'll be over the course of his career at LFC.


I think I'm judging the Liverpool defence in general more so than Clyne as such. It's your defence that has cost you most this season. Coutinho is exceptional - he deserves the affection he gets.

I respect your opinion on Lovren - it's just not one I share with you. His quality, I would say, has been nowhere near where it was in his season at Southampton with Poch in charge. I'm not sure he will ever be worthy of that 20m fee.

Liverpool need to concentrate on getting a new keeper and some new defenders this summer. That's the weak spot. Ditch Benteke as well.
Original post by Everglow
I think I'm judging the Liverpool defence in general more so than Clyne as such. It's your defence that has cost you most this season. Coutinho is exceptional - he deserves the affection he gets.
This season has been a real mishmash. There isn't a single factor that's cost us more than anything else. If we were to pick one, then I'd point at our attack in the first half of the season. But overall, there's factors like Brendan Rodgers' 8 games, 3/4s of our squad injured in Klopp's first few months, attack failing in the first half of the year, Mignolet, midfield failing leading to high scoring games, and inconsistencies in the league after the League Cup final, mainly caused by rotation and eyes on the EL.

If you're going to judge Clyne on all of that then that's not really assessing a player. Coutinho is a great player (especially vs Soton) but his portrayal as a near-deity/near-Suarez makes it very surprising that Clyne could win a POTS vote, and gives you perspective on Clyne's first season here.

I respect your opinion on Lovren - it's just not one I share with you. His quality, I would say, has been nowhere near where it was in his season at Southampton with Poch in charge. I'm not sure he will ever be worthy of that 20m fee.

I don't know how many LFC games you've watched in 2016 but 99% of our fans would be happy with Lovren starting for us next year, which is laudable after his first season here given how long grudges against players last . There's no real need to breakdown the fee, we (rightly) paid a PL premium to get a player who could slot in from day one. It didn't work out that way because Rodgers can't coach defensively but if Lovren stays here 4/5 more years, defenders will be going for £40m fees with regularity and his fee won't seem important. We had around £150m to spend that summer too, so £20m is almost insignificant for us tbh.
Reply 7434
Avatar for llys
llys
17
Original post by sell my secrets
Europa isn't a hindrance if you've got a manager that knows how to rotate properly and has a squad with which you can rotate well (ie Klopp + current squad + few additions).

Europa is a win, no Europa is a win, not hugely bothered by either even if the former is preferable. Main loss of no Europa is no playing time for the young players, and seeing as Klopp isn't in favour of the loan system, that's going to stunt their progression a lot.


Interesting - what has he said about the loan system?
Original post by sell my secrets
That's his game. Anything more than a 20 yard pass starts to test his technique, and he rightfully doesn't test it very often. He correctly limits his forward passing and movement, cuts out the 'bravery' that you're asking for and does his work at his own pace. That doesn't mean it's the right pace for the team, but it's much better than losing the ball. He's always been a limited player and become a squad player for the first team down to good decision making on his part.


Yeah, but against WBA away, we don't need a player like that. It's fine for an FA Cup fixture where we just need a body to give Henderson, Milner or Can a rest, but a PL game where we need three points next season? We need players trying to force the issue imho.
Original post by llys
Interesting - what has he said about the loan system?


Initially mentioned he wants to keep all loan players in house
http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/klopp-set-overhaul-liverpool-fc-10360430
Then elaborated on how it's important for players to grow together
http://www.thisisanfield.com/2016/01/jurgen-klopp-talks-importance-recalling-youngsters/
Original post by Mackay
Yeah, but against WBA away, we don't need a player like that. It's fine for an FA Cup fixture where we just need a body to give Henderson, Milner or Can a rest, but a PL game where we need three points next season? We need players trying to force the issue imho.


Yeah, but we have a cup final in 3 days, and no-one is suggesting that he'll be playing important games next season. Your grievances should be with Brannagan and Allen for not providing the incision. Nobody has ever criticised Mascherano or Makelele or Coquelin's lack of offensive output and Stewart is in the same style.
Original post by sell my secrets
Yeah, but we have a cup final in 3 days, and no-one is suggesting that he'll be playing important games next season. Your grievances should be with Brannagan and Allen for not providing the incision. Nobody has ever criticised Mascherano or Makelele or Coquelin's lack of offensive output and Stewart is in the same style.


I get what you're saying.

Also, just realised this is SUG - spent the last few days seeing the name and thinking it was Depleted. Apologies.
Reply 7439
Avatar for llys
llys
17
Original post by sell my secrets
Initially mentioned he wants to keep all loan players in house
http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/klopp-set-overhaul-liverpool-fc-10360430
Then elaborated on how it's important for players to grow together
http://www.thisisanfield.com/2016/01/jurgen-klopp-talks-importance-recalling-youngsters/


It will be interesting how he does it - I agree with everything he says, but here in England people seem to swear on the loan system, which means there is no well-developed alternative for doing things differently (yet - I don't think any club has tried to do without it before).

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