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government entry requirements for teacher training

Hi there

I'm in the process of applying for a school direct placement.
it's to be at my current work place (I work as an IT tech within the school).

I have unfortunately reached a stumbling block, and I cannot find any information on what is what.

the government websites for getting into teaching all say that the requirements are GCSES in English and Maths and a degree in the relivent subject.

my interview is next week and I have just realised I have lost my certificates, and have applied for replacements.

I then realised my English GCSES are split into English Lit and English Language.
My Grades are C in English lit and D in Language.

The gov websites make no note of which one they want, so in my mind I do in fact have a C. Along with passing their Professional Skills tests I feel I meet their requirements.

then I checked on the partnership Unis site, and it says they want English Language... no mention of Lit.

am I in a position to argue that the Government requirements don't specify? And along with passing the skills test and having a GNVC, BTEC and a degree I more than meet their requirements?

I'm just worried I will be turned down because of it


thanks
I have always assumed that the English in Maths and English refers to English Language.

At A level, then EL tends to become creative writing and most others did lit.

As you cant hide, then rather than arguing you should adopt a more enquiring and conciliatory approach seeking clarification. You cna either say youd forgotten or you believed lit was ok, but ofc it only takes a phonecall to check and it appears to be clear from the website.

If it were me I would at least make an enquiry to see if I could get guidance prior to the interview. I imagine they have discretion and could ask you to take it again, whilst doing the course. I wouldnt give up am sure they will have come across it before.
Original post by Diagro
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Unfortunately the requirement is English Language. You'll need to re-sit this qualification in November 2016 or June 2017 if you wish to train to teach.
Reply 3
Original post by Mr M
Unfortunately the requirement is English Language. You'll need to re-sit this qualification in November 2016 or June 2017 if you wish to train to teach.


You say this like its fact?
No where does it specify on any of the governing bodys websites that the requirement is English Language, it simply states "GCSE English at Grade C"

I have spoken to the partnership Uni and they have agreed with me, and then informed me its their guidelines for it to be English Language, or Equivalent.

I have asked them what i need to do to get around this, as i have the grade in Eng Lit and there is no Specification on all of the governing bodys sites. They agreed it was confusing and have gone to investigate.

If they come back and have a hard line stance i will ask if its possible for me to do the GCSE at the same time as the teacher training.
(edited 7 years ago)
Original post by Diagro
You say this like its fact?


GCSE English and GCSE English Language are the only qualifications that guarantee to meet the entry requirement. Training providers may accept someone with a C grade in GCSE English Literature if they can provide "further evidence of a breadth of achievement in English". An example of such evidence might be a successful result in a GCSE English Language equivalence test.
(edited 7 years ago)

GCSE requirementsThe basic requirements for GCSE grades if you want to train to teach are:

a GCSE grade C (or overseas equivalent) in maths and English to teach at secondary level

a GCSE grade C (or overseas equivalent) in maths, English and science to teach at primary level

If you have overseas equivalent qualifications, you should contact your preferred training provider to check on eligibility, as they make the final judgement on equivalency.What if you don’t have the required GCSEs?You can contact the school or university you’d like to apply to if you don’t have the requisite GCSEs or overseas equivalent qualification. They make the final decision on equivalent qualifications, and some schools and universities may offer you the opportunity to sit a GCSE equivalency test.
If this choice is not available, you could consider a part-time GCSE or Open Access course at your local further education college. You’ll need to cover the cost of any such course yourself.


So there is some wiggle room, but I would still say English refers to English language, just like French, Spanish and German refer to language and not literature. If tnhey wnated literature they would say literature and if either was acceptable, then they would say so.
Reply 6
Thank you for your help.

I will see what the uni and school say.

Would be a shame to block me from training due to this imo. I have met every other criteria so far.
Reply 7
I feel like English language is always the one in demand (As I've experienced anyway), because you're actually proving your English knowledge :biggrin: I mean lit is just... analysing poetry really.

Give them a call and ask :smile:
Reply 8
I really wanted to add my conundrum on this I want to do a Primary PGCE after I complete my degree (which I haven't even chosen yet). Government guidelines say a degree in a relevant subject what would be classed as a relevant subject? I am toying with a few options at the moment Bioscience, Zoology, Ecology, Biology would all of these be acceptable as degree subject to teach at primary level. Is there any degree's that would not be appropriate?
How do other subjects like criminology, Marine biology fare?
Original post by lorelei80
I really wanted to add my conundrum on this I want to do a Primary PGCE after I complete my degree (which I haven't even chosen yet). Government guidelines say a degree in a relevant subject what would be classed as a relevant subject? I am toying with a few options at the moment Bioscience, Zoology, Ecology, Biology would all of these be acceptable as degree subject to teach at primary level. Is there any degree's that would not be appropriate?
How do other subjects like criminology, Marine biology fare?


If you are wanting to be a primary teacher and have yet to choose a degree, why are you looking to do a different degree, followed by a PGCE, over a Bachelor's in Education? This would surely be the most sensible route and I assume would be a lot easier/less competitive than applying for a Primary PGCE later on which as I understand it is incredibly competitive..

I also am not really sure your question is relevant to the discussion around English requirements...
Reply 10
Original post by Elivercury
If you are wanting to be a primary teacher and have yet to choose a degree, why are you looking to do a different degree, followed by a PGCE, over a Bachelor's in Education? This would surely be the most sensible route and I assume would be a lot easier/less competitive than applying for a Primary PGCE later on which as I understand it is incredibly competitive..

I also am not really sure your question is relevant to the discussion around English requirements...


We were actually always told in school that we would be more employable having a degree and a PGCE than just a bachelor in education
well in case you didn't see the title of the thread is "government entry requirements for teacher training" and a relevant degree would be a requirement don't you think?

That was my thought too @anna__
Original post by anna__
We were actually always told in school that we would be more employable having a degree and a PGCE than just a bachelor in education


Possible. I can't claim to have any knowledge of primary education, qualifications or hiring policies, however I'd have thought the dedicated three year degree course would be the more sensible option.

Having a quick search revealed this: http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/showthread.php?t=1821368

Which seems to conclude that they're valued about the same (with one guy insisting an undergrad shows more "dedication" to teaching, but I don't give that much credit).

The biggest point it makes is probably that doing a degree then a PGCE offers flexibility should you want to leave teaching, so that probably makes it a better option. Although the point still stands that Primary PGCE's appear to be very competitive, so may be the more difficult route.
Original post by lorelei80
well in case you didn't see the title of the thread is "government entry requirements for teacher training" and a relevant degree would be a requirement don't you think?

That was my thought too @anna__


The entry requirement being discussed was English, but sure re-purpose it.

I'm happy to be corrected, but I suspect that "relevant degree" is primarily applicable to those wanting to teach Secondary, as to teach subjects up to A level/Advanced Higher level, you will require strong subject knowledge. For primary I think just having any degree is basically enough.

I can't think of any degree subject that would be considered more, or less, relevant than any other and it'll likely come down to the amount of classroom experience you have and how well you are able to present yourself at your interviews. I would suggest looking at the current thread for 2016 PGCE applications - about 50% are for primary and it probably paints a pretty accurate picture of how competitive and involved the process is.

Best of luck with your studies.
The requirement is GCSE English Language (Also called GCSE English by some exam boards) or GCSE English Language and Literature combined at grade C or above. Some universities will accept a pass on the equivalency test that they offer or may accept Functional Skills Level 2 English qualification. However not all universities and training providers accept equivalent qualifications, therefore this limits your choice if you do not resit the GCSE.
Original post by Elivercury
The entry requirement being discussed was English, but sure re-purpose it.

I'm happy to be corrected, but I suspect that "relevant degree" is primarily applicable to those wanting to teach Secondary, as to teach subjects up to A level/Advanced Higher level, you will require strong subject knowledge. For primary I think just having any degree is basically enough.

I can't think of any degree subject that would be considered more, or less, relevant than any other and it'll likely come down to the amount of classroom experience you have and how well you are able to present yourself at your interviews. I would suggest looking at the current thread for 2016 PGCE applications - about 50% are for primary and it probably paints a pretty accurate picture of how competitive and involved the process is.

Best of luck with your studies.



Generally universities ask that the subject that was studied at Bachelors level contains at least 50% of relevant subject material that the applicant wishes to teach for Secondary Education. However, for Primary Education the rules are more relaxed unless the candidate wants to pursue a specialism such as Primary Maths. I know people with Psychology, Sociology and Law degrees who have become Primary teachers. Providers are looking for candidates with work experience, personal qualities that make them suitable for teaching and a commitment to working with and developing children.
Original post by Powersymphonia
Generally universities ask that the subject that was studied at Bachelors level contains at least 50% of relevant subject material that the applicant wishes to teach for Secondary Education. However, for Primary Education the rules are more relaxed unless the candidate wants to pursue a specialism such as Primary Maths. I know people with Psychology, Sociology and Law degrees who have become Primary teachers. Providers are looking for candidates with work experience, personal qualities that make them suitable for teaching and a commitment to working with and developing children.

Thanks for confirming my suspicions. I'm surprised they don't offer primary with science actually, given its a very weak area for most primary teachers from what I've read.
It is because they hardly teach science in primary schools. We do maybe 1 lesson every 2 weeks. It is ridiculous.

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