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Turkey is going down the authoritarian route.

"Usually it takes a scandal or a massive policy blunder to force a sitting head of government to resign. But Thursday morning, Turkish Prime Minister Ahmet Davutoğluannounced that he'd be leaving his job on May 22 — without a scandal or policy blunder in sight. Instead, Turkey's president, Recep Tayyip Erdoğan, forced Davutoğlu from his job.

On paper, this is strange: Turkey has a parliamentary democracy, so the prime minister, not the president, is supposed to actually run the government. But it's long been clear that Erdoğan has actually been calling the shots, with Davutoğlu serving mostly as his sidekick.This is a grim development for Turkish democracy.

Davutoğlu was forced out because he couldn't get on board with Erdoğan's plan to revamp the Turkish constitution to concentrate a dangerous amount of power in the office of the presidency. Davutoğlu's ouster is a clear signal that Erdoğan is about to proceed with his plans to seize power."


http://www.vox.com/2016/5/6/11599628/davutoglu-resigns

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Erdogan has lost the plot, in my opinion
From the same article.

"
"Wealthy democracies don’t become dictatorships. For a generation that adage has provided one of the firmest laws of modern democratization," Jason Brownlee, a professor of government at the University of Texas Austin, writes in the Washington Post.A democratic collapse in Turkey would be the first obvious case to break this pattern. It would suggest that what was previously seen as a law might just have been an accident of history. Democracy might not be as safe as we think, even in wealthy countries."Authoritarianism in Turkey," Brownlee writes, "would cast a pall over other high-income countries where democracy seems assured."So the battle over Turkish democracy, kicked off in earnest by Davutoğlu's departure, doesn't only matter for Turkey. It raises questions about a fundamental building block on which our modern world is built: the stability of democratic governments.
"
Turkey is a democracy and Erdogan is a president elected by people. You dont like democracy when it does not work for your interests ?
Reply 4
Avatar for IAmNero
IAmNero
2
Original post by SemiteLog
Turkey is a democracy and Erdogan is a president elected by people. You dont like democracy when it does not work for your interests ?


What are you on about? Turkey is anything but a democracy! North Korea is called The DEMOCRATIC Republic of Korea, but they aren't democratic. Look beneath all the propaganda!
Original post by IAmNero
What are you on about? Turkey is anything but a democracy! North Korea is called The DEMOCRATIC Republic of Korea, but they aren't democratic. Look beneath all the propaganda!


He and his party is chosen by people. You should go to wailing wall or an international court, I dont know ...
Original post by SemiteLog
He and his party is chosen by people. You should go to wailing wall or an international court, I dont know ...


Lol he was chosen by his people, but then when he got into power and is now trying to change the constitution to be more un-democratic. Bit like the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt... or even the (counter-)revolution in Iran.

But if you think he was chosen by people, you must have a very dim view of the Turkish people :tongue:
Original post by chemting
Lol he was chosen by his people, but then when he got into power and is now trying to change the constitution to be more un-democratic. Bit like the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt... or even the (counter-)revolution in Iran.

But if you think he was chosen by people, you must have a very dim view of the Turkish people :tongue:



Constitution change is going to be done by election. So people will decide whether or not to change it.


Appearently you have a problem with democracy when it does not work for you.
Original post by SemiteLog
Constitution change is going to be done by election. So people will decide whether or not to change it.

Try telling that to the people of Iran and Egypt :tongue:

That's not always the case.

Original post by SemiteLog
Appearently you have a problem with democracy when it does not work for you.


I have no problem with democracy when it "doesn't work", I have a problem with authoritarian pricks like Erdogan, and it is my democratic right to be able to criticise him (inb4 he shuts down TSR...)

Right now, Turkey is a democratic country: there's no denying that. But once Erdogan manages to change the constitution to his will...? who knows?
Original post by chemting
Try telling that to the people of Iran and Egypt :tongue:

That's not always the case.



I have no problem with democracy when it "doesn't work", I have a problem with authoritarian pricks like Erdogan, and it is my democratic right to be able to criticise him (inb4 he shuts down TSR...)

Right now, Turkey is a democratic country: there's no denying that. But once Erdogan manages to change the constitution to his will...? who knows?


Someones cant be "authoritarians" in democracies. Do you know what is democracy ?

I repeat, the constitution is going to be changed by election, not according to will of someones, can you understand that ?
Original post by SemiteLog
Someones cant be "authoritarians" in democracies. Do you know what is democracy ?

I suggest you stop playing with semantics, you know well I didn't mean authoritarian as a strict political science term.

Original post by SemiteLog
I repeat, the constitution is going to be changed by election, not according to will of someones, can you understand that ?



You say that with certainty? according to the constitution (article 175), it can be changed via the national assembly or a referenda (or the President may do both if he feels like it). If you think Erdogan will hold a referenda on every single change, then I guess I have nothing to quibble with you about.
(edited 7 years ago)
Original post by chemting
I suggest you stop playing with semantics, you know well I didn't mean authoritarian as a strict political science term.




You say that with certainty? according to the constitution (article 175), it can be changed via the national assembly or a referenda (or the President may do both if he feels like it). If you think Erdogan will hold a referenda on every single changes, then I guess I have nothing to quibble with you about.



Whuatttt ? Is not it the worst thing that putting an article in a constitution that you cant change the constitution anymore ? LoooooL this is tragic comic. This is ridiculous. LoL Article 175: "You cant change the constitution anymore because we decided for the best for you. You have no right to change it for ever." da daaa

Now you started to make predictions ? So you think Erdogan is a bad president because he "may" violate constitution LoL.


Are you aware of it, you have an obsessive-compulsive disorder. No offense. You have obssessive ideas and cant get rid of them despite I gave you logical descriptions.
Original post by SemiteLog
Whuatttt ? Is not it the worst thing that putting an article in a constitution that you cant change the constitution anymore ? LoooooL this is tragic comic. This is ridiculous. LoL Article 175: "You cant change the constitution anymore because we decided for the best for you. You have no right to change it for ever." da daaa


Every constitution has an article on how to change/amend it and what processes are required :colonhash: You said, it will only be changed by the people - and that's not strictly true is it... article 175 that I have mentioned does NOT say "you cant change the constitution anymore...", it says how you can change the constitution. God! can you not read?
Original post by SemiteLog
Now you started to make predictions ? So you think Erdogan is a bad president because he "may" violate constitution LoL.

I'm sorry - shall we ignore the prediction you made? You seemed to have made with absolute certainty,
Original post by SemiteLog

I repeat, the constitution is going to be changed by election, not according to will of someones, can you understand that ?


I simply infer what he could do according to law, not what he will do. You seem to know the future with absolute certainty.
Original post by SemiteLog
Are you aware of it, you have an obsessive-compulsive disorder. No offense. You have obssessive ideas and cant get rid of them despite I gave you logical descriptions.


What logical descriptions? you made an utopian argument "that the people will change the constitution and that's for certain"...

What ideas am I obsessed with? Do you think taking Turkey back to the Ottoman principles (neo-Ottomanism) will make all the ills go away?
Original post by chemting
Try telling that to the people of Iran and Egypt :tongue:

That's not always the case.



I have no problem with democracy when it "doesn't work", I have a problem with authoritarian pricks like Erdogan, and it is my democratic right to be able to criticise him (inb4 he shuts down TSR...)

Right now, Turkey is a democratic country: there's no denying that. But once Erdogan manages to change the constitution to his will...? who knows?


How dare you slander el-sisi, he is the savior!
Original post by chemting
Every constitution has an article on how to change/amend it and what processes are required :colonhash: You said, it will only be changed by the people - and that's not strictly true is it... article 175 that I have mentioned does NOT say "you cant change the constitution anymore...", it says how you can change the constitution. God! can you not read?

I'm sorry - shall we ignore the prediction you made? You seemed to have made with absolute certainty,

I simply infer what he could do according to law, not what he will do. You seem to know the future with absolute certainty.

What logical descriptions? you made an utopian argument "that the people will change the constitution and that's for certain"...

What ideas am I obsessed with? Do you think taking Turkey back to the Ottoman principles (neo-Ottomanism) will make all the ills go away?



Sorry my mistake, because there are also articles in current democratic (?) Turkish constitution that you can never change. Article 175 expalins how to change constitution in democratic ways. There is a need for enough parliamentarians votes. AKP parliamentarians will offer to change constitution. If the big part of parliamentarians accept the offer, they submit the offer to the president, if the president accepts the offer then public votes decide for the change.


Okay your majesty ??? do you allow them to change it now ? LoL
(edited 7 years ago)
Reply 15
Avatar for inhuman
inhuman
2
Original post by ODES_PDES
Erdogan has lost the plot, in my opinion


That's a very mild way of putting it.

He is a blatant dictator...
Original post by SemiteLog
Sorry my mistake, because there are also articles in current democratic (?) Turkish constitution that you can never change. Article 175 expalins how to change constitution in democratic ways. There is a need for enough parliamentarians votes. AKP parliamentarians will offer to change constitution. If the big part of parliamentarians accept the offer, they submit the offer to the president, if the president accepts the offer then public votes decide for the change.


That's one way yes. If they get more than 3/5ths but less than 2/3rds of the vote, it has to go to the public. Does all the amendments go to the public? What about if they get a qualified majority, i.e. more than 2/3rds

Also, assuming all the amendments will magically be chosen by the people, democracy can be used to get rid of democracy. People can, ironically vote in an undemocratic govt. I've mentioned that before.


Original post by SemiteLog
Okay your majesty ??? do you allow them to change it now ? LoL

What? What are you talking about?

And that's your emirate to you... :tongue:


Posted from TSR Mobile
Original post by chemting
That's one way yes. If they get more than 3/5ths but less than 2/3rds of the vote, it has to go to the public. Does all the amendments go to the public? What about if they get a qualified majority, i.e. more than 2/3rds

Also, assuming all the amendments will magically be chosen by the people, democracy can be used to get rid of democracy. People can, ironically vote in an undemocratic govt. I've mentioned that before.



What? What are you talking about?

And that's your emirate to you... :tongue:


Posted from TSR Mobile



Why do you interested to extend this issue this much ? Simply accept it tht you dont like democracies when it does not work for your interests and dont forget you are a kingdom.
Original post by SemiteLog
Why do you interested to extend this issue this much ? Simply accept it tht you dont like democracies when it does not work for your interests and dont forget you are a kingdom.


I don't like democracies when people use it to destroy democracies :tongue: but I accept that you don't care about the people Erdogan is hurting. "Justice" eh?

Original post by SemiteLog
and dont forget you are a kingdom.


I see you don't understand the political ideologies the AKP support
(edited 7 years ago)
Original post by chemting
I don't like democracies when people use it to destroy democracies :tongue: but I guess you don't care about the people Erdogan is hurting. "Justice" eh?

Posted from TSR Mobile


In democracies, people cannot destroy democracies according to their will. Learn what is democracy first.

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