Young people need to vote. Old people are destroying the UK

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Yeah by Tony Blair. A disgrace to the Labour Party. The Labour party aren't perfect, and in the past I think that it has been more of a right wing party than left,
but there is no point looking in the past when CURRENTLY Cameron has tripled tuition fees and wants to raise them again and Corbyn wants to abolish them completely.

I agree with most of your post, but I find it unfair to attribute all blame to the Tories for raising the fees. Labour brought in the fees - without fees, there would be nothing to triple. I also think it is far easier to raise existing fees than to bring in wholly new fees. Also, I don't think it is reasonable to suggest that raising fees was something unforeseeable to Labour when they brought them in. Fees and taxes always end up increasing once they are brought in. I don't at all condone raising the fees, but I also don't think it's fair to attribute ALL blame to the Tories. I think it's a matter of causation and 'looking in the past' is important on that. Corbyn wanting to abolish fees is positive and very interesting actually that he wants to reverse something his own party did, but like you say, that's the difference in Blair and Corbyn Labour!

Reply 61

5hauna

Original post by tripleseven

Here we ago again with comments that contain an element of fact mixed with a really ignorant view of the demographic of people in the UK. No I'm not happy about the possible rise in tuition fees, and I'm sure a large number of people who support the conservatives either. What makes you feel inclined to comment so ignorantly about the demographic of party voters?

Conservative voters are sad about tuition fees? Oh one sec let me just get my violin out. It just goes to show people don't care until it affects them lol

Reply 62

EuanF

Original post by lolatmaths

*Cringe*

Reply 63

Grand High Witch

Ageism is tantamount to racism.

Reply 64

tripleseven

Original post by 5hauna

Conservative voters are sad about tuition fees? Oh one sec let me just get my violin out. It just goes to show people don't care until it affects them lol

Yes it does affect me, and many others, because I'm not rich, not even close, pity that completely contradicts your last post then doesn't it? And yes, I agree with your "lol" at the end there, I base that "lol" on your entire reply which says nothing in the way of an argument.... "lol"

Reply 65

Liquid Cat

Original post by Grand High Witch

Ageism is tantamount to racism.

Funny how all these self-declared socialists excuse one whilst condemning the other... Whatever happened to looking after your fellow man?

(edited 7 years ago)

Reply 66

FredOrJohn

we're all young.
I would feel too young to die even at 500 or 1000 years.

95 years is more or less nothing;

Existential existence is so awful. We do great stuff, and before you know it you are mddle age, then old , then dead.

Its the stuff of nightmares.

Original post by infairverona

Where are your sources for any of these 'facts', who is writing these sources, and what is their bias? You seem to believe every piece of 'research' you see that goes alongside your view.

International commission of health researchers published by the Lancet Medical Journal. I implore you to find me a single source that says otherwise. You won't, because it doesn't exist. I had a report on EU legal highs use which found that Ireland (where they introduced the Psychoactive Substances Act) had the highest usage of legal highs by far, I'll see if I can dig that out for you.

Finnish education system ranked second in the world, 2010. An analysis of the Finnish education system.

I don't usually bother providing sources anymore because the unfortunate and frustrating thing is that people will rarely read them and, if they do, they'll simply disagree because it's their "opinion".

I think a lot of people on the left are equally uninformed. I have spoken to many people who want to vote remain who have never heard of the EFTA, Schengen agreement, don't know the difference between the EU and the ECHR, or even the ECtHR. Misinformation and a lack of self educating on political issues is not a problem that the right alone suffers from, and I think you are very arrogant if that is what you are suggesting.

I never said there aren't people on the left that are uninformed. I referred to some very specific and clear-cut issues.

I also notice that your view on what qualifies someone to make a decision seems to vary a lot. Here you seem to be implying that only people who are going along with scientific consensus are correct. A few weeks ago you said only people with at least A levels are qualified to make any decisions. So what is it, you need to have A levels and agree with the status quo? Because if so, again, that is your opinion and you want people only to agree with your view - which is that scientific consensus is the be all and end all, and should be the basis for all political opinions.

Oh, this again. Like I said last time, but you seemed to have trouble comprehending, I gave that as an example. I never said you need A levels to be qualified, or that A levels qualify you. It was an example.

Original post by TercioOfParma

Old people have a better perspective on the political history of the nation on average than the young. Sure, there are politically active young people and inactive old people, but I would say in general older people probably have a better understanding considering they have lived through it.Therefore, you would expect old people to make decisions based on a higher degree of experience than the young.

This is how it should be, but unfortunately it isn't. Maybe because education wasn't as good back then, maybe because of increased lead exposure in older generations, but older people are typically less likely to agree with a scientific consensus and less likely to change their views overall. We didn't start believing the Earth was round until older generations died.

Original post by Supersaps

The only thing OP is right about is that he's young.Older generations fought and died to give you the liberties you possess today. What have you done that gives you such a self-righteous attitude?Absolute liberal fruitcake. Go imbibe The Guardian some more and come back when you've done something with your life.SS@JordanL

This is the type of thing that I'm talking about. What relevance is it that older generations fought and died? Absolutely nothing. When you're wrong, you're wrong. It should NOT be taboo to tell people when they're wrong.

Reply 69

5hauna

Original post by tripleseven

''If you vote Conservatives you're either rich or stupid''

Well, if you're not rich, that must make you...... :wink:

Reply 70

inhuman

I agree with almost everything you say. In fact your post highlights some the key problems that exist (not just in the UK but my home country, too).

1. The young have their life to live yet the old decide what's best. That is a huge problem, quite right.

2. Politicians are idiots. I particularly love your part about May, too funny.

However, I don't think it is necessary to mention the Tories here. Sure in general older people are more conservative and hence more likely to vote Tory. But let's face it, all politicians are idiots. And that includes Labor.

Reply 71

inhuman

Original post by The gains kinggg

thats disgusting. the people who fought for the vote....

Ignorance at its finest

Actually, you are the one who is being ignorant here. What that poster said, while sounding harsh, no doubt, the poster is spot on.

The old have completely different points of focus. What do they care about the future. You think you would get older people to vote for you if you campaigned to reduce pensions?

Once people do not work anymore they shouldn't be allowed to vote anymore. They should sit aside for the next generation.

Reply 72

tripleseven

Original post by 5hauna

''If you vote Conservatives you're either rich or stupid''

Well, if you're not rich, that must make you...... :wink:

Well, if you don't support them, that's fair enough.. you have your own opinion :wink:

Reply 73

The gains kinggg

Original post by inhuman

FASCIST

So what your saying can be applied to students who never have had a job or immigrants who havent paid taxes then...

Reply 74

Liquid Cat

Isn't the right to vote a basic human right?

Reply 75

hektik

We live in a democracy and we have universal suffrage. If you are a citizen of the country and an adult, you can vote. That's it. You talk about old "morons" voting the country in the ground, but all that is is your personal perspective. Some of them likely think the same of the youth, young "educated" people voting the country into the ground. Who's right? You? Them? Neither. Both thoughts are opinions. Politics is exceedingly complicated, in fact, although it's their job, it's even difficult for polititians to know exactly how their decisions and actions will pan out. They are human and can only operate on a limited amount of information. Their job is like predicting the weather, they just can't know or account for all of the variables. Their's no perfect political system, not even close. I like living in a democracy of universal suffrage, because even if most of the population is uninformed and short sighted, at least I can rely on my fellow citizens to vote out parties as punishment for their bad leadership and force the polititians to play nice. I'm never going to advocate taking the vote away from certain adults, it violates the golden rule, treat others as you'd like to be treated, the most fundamental of social contracts.

Reply 76

tripleseven

Original post by inhuman

Once people do not work anymore they shouldn't be allowed to vote anymore. They should sit aside for the next generation.

I think this is extremely wrong. I understand that the elderly may have a different point of view and you've explained that which is fair enough, in addition to the fact that OP has some arguments in his post worth noting but it should be fair to say that the older generation have worked hard enough and paid their taxes long enough over the years to be able to at least have a say - you can't just dismiss their opinions "because they're old and they have a different opinion to what I think and they might die anyway (as someone else once said, not you I know but you get my point)". They still represent a large part of our society, especially since we are indeed an ageing population, regardless of whether they have a different view or not.

(edited 7 years ago)

Reply 77

inhuman

Original post by The gains kinggg

FASCIST

So what your saying can be applied to students who never have had a job or immigrants who havent paid taxes then...

Both students and immigrants have the potential to work and contribute.

And ok, I am a "fascist", I feel so terrible now. :/

Reply 78

EuanF

Original post by inhuman

Both students and immigrants have the potential to work and contribute.

And ok, I am a "fascist", I feel so terrible now. :/

What about the disabled? Conscientous objectors?

Reply 79

5hauna

Original post by tripleseven

That was a joke btw, sorry it's just that when people tell me they support a party who blatantly don't care about them, its just like why? I try and be open minded about things, but I seriously cannot see why. Young people are having it harder than ever under the Conservative party, you included...so why? :confused: