Men are the oppressed.

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What is wrong with those 'traditional views'??

The idea that men can't be open with their emotions is also a load of BS and in my opinion isn't part of traditional views on masculinity. There's a time and a place for expression negative emotion and I don't think it needs to be done at every available opportunity, but that doesn't mean we internalise everything and let it manifest in some ****ed up way in our behaviour just because we don't always 'open up'.

They contribute to things mentioned in the op, ofc...

Being stoic regarding emotion is an integral part of traditional masculinity. You must be terribly naive to deny that.
I seriously fail to believe you think women are no more open than guys...

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Reply 41

ElaArslan

Original post by xylas

Anyone can be sexist, even the last person on the world (lmao).

Most men DO know how to show emotion. What you said was sexist I'm afraid even if you rationalise it.

That's your opinion, I'm afraid. I've been brought up in Hackney, London where there are a lot of young men who share traits of violence, something which is typically masculine. I guess your view on something just depends on what you have observed in your life.

Reply 42

xylas

Original post by RobML

Said lad wasn't talking of concepts of masculinity and femininity as natural and good; think you misunderstood him there.

Lmao, it's not sexist, just a very simplified version of a very good explanation for the higher suicide rate among men. The tendency of dominance within the construct of masculinity results in pressure and stress. This coupled with the tendency of stoicism and suppressing emotion within the construct of masculinity is a very effective explanation. It may make you uncomfortable but it should do

1) Don't speak for other users

2) Effective explanation or not, it is still sexist. 'Men do not know how to SHOW emotion' is a sexist statement, do you want me to make a poll about it?

Reply 43

xylas

Original post by ElaArslan

Wow, I never expected you to hold on to what you're saying even though it's sexist. That's a strong opinion you've got, I'd be careful where you share it in public.

Reply 44

ElaArslan

Original post by xylas

'Men do not know how to SHOW emotion' is a sexist statement, do you want me to make a poll about it?

1) Users can talk for any other user if they wish, as long as it relates to what is discussed

2) You keep taking that quote out of context though lmaoo I already tried to explain myself but if you wanna stick to your opinion then that's you.

Reply 45

RobML

Original post by xylas

1) Don't speak for other users

2) Effective explanation or not, it is still sexist. 'Men do not know how to SHOW emotion' is a sexist statement, do you want me to make a poll about it?

1) I was just being helpful by clarifying what they said since you clearly took it the wrong way. Gosh you're touchy.

2) Maybe "men do not know how to show emotion" could be construed as sexist since it sounds like such a blanket statement, but to say a more detailed version of it is sexist just comes across as laughable denial

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(edited 7 years ago)

Reply 46

ElaArslan

Original post by xylas

Wow, I never expected you to hold on to what you're saying even though it's sexist. That's a strong opinion you've got, I'd be careful where you share it in public.

I don't see it as sexist though? As I said before you're talking out of context and without understanding of what I'm trying to say. I don't need advice from someone who just attacks people :smile:

I've already tried to be reasonable but apparently that doesn't work with you.

(edited 7 years ago)

Reply 47

hezzlington

Original post by RobML

Yes, absolutely. I think it's a good thing to an extent. But there's a difference between not being able to communicate emotion and how you're feeling, particularly in relationships, and being stoic.

Wut? I never said women are no more open than guys.

Reply 48

ClockworkHobbit

Original post by IAmNero

In modern society. Now I know people will get up in arms but hear me out.

1. Men are the primary victims of suicide.

2. Men are most likely to suffer from violent crime.

3. Men are most likely to become homeless.

4. Only 8% of domestic violence services are designed specifically for men

5. There are a grand total of 0 male only gyms officially registered.

6. The education system is linear not modular, a system that favours women

7. Men are now at a 2:1 disadvantage when looking for work in STEM fields.

8. More than 50% of degrees in 2013 were gained by women

9. In most divorce cases men are made to pay ridiculous sums.

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1. Okay, fair enough, but more is being done about that now

2. From other men

3. I don't really know enough to comment

4. Because more women are abused, so more services are needed for women as there are simply more female victims (I'm not saying that there shouldn't be more for men, I'm just giving a reason why)

5. Because women need women only gyms because in mixed gender gyms women are often made to feel uncomfortable by the men there, as if they don't belong, or because the men are making inappropriate comments and catcalling.

6. And yet out of the top 100 businesses only 7 have women CEO's, so even if women are doing better in the education system, men are still getting the top jobs.

7. Again, I don't know enough to comment

8. Because there are more women in the world than men, 51% of the population are female, 49% are male, it makes sense that more women are getting degrees. Also, more women go to university than men, meaning that more women are getting degrees, you can't give degrees to people who aren't in uni.

9. Yeah, that one isn't fair

You are right, men do get oppressed, and there are some inequalities that men do face that women don't. However, there are so many more inequalities that women face, that men don't even realise. And men are to blame for this oppression, on both sides, most of the time.

Reply 49

ClockworkHobbit

Original post by Jd_uk

Shhhh...men aren't allowed to complain. You have to 'man up' and get on with it. Sexism only works one way remember.

Joking aside, there is a section on the BBC website titled 'sexism'. Not a single article on there is about sexism towards men. It's all 'gender pay gap' and 'women being forced to do x, y , z'... Frankly it's time that feminists were put in their place a bit. I think that time will come but unfortunately it is quite a few years off.

Yeah, really feminism is about gender equality, that means equality of rights for everyone, not just women. True feminists see that women have some rights that men don't and want that to change as well as the other way round, the people that believe that feminism is only for women don't understand what feminism is.

Reply 50

RobML

Original post by hezzlington

Ability to communicate emotion is strengthened by habit. Suppressing emotion weakens that habit, and therefore the ability to communicate emotion. Simple.

Thus, you must think guys are less open than women. Bingo.

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Reply 51

Nayzar

The world needs to chill out imo. Everyone's like "unfair this" and "unfair that" over the most minor things. So what if there are statistical differences? Deal with it. Yes there are some things which are worth speaking out about - like the past century racism towards black people, this century's racism towards muslims and unequal opportunities for women in some IMPOVERISHED countries.
But come on, surely if you have to look into statistics to pick out other inequalities then you have too much time on your hands.
Worry about the bigger problems.

(edited 7 years ago)

Reply 52

xylas

Original post by ElaArslan

Lol you're speaking for each other! I think I'm better off responding to the two of you as one person then (as long as it relates to what is discussed).

It's not out of context, this is your explanation btw

"I was implying that most men don't know how to show emotion because being emotional is seen as a feminine trait."

This sentence is sexist, but you're not gonna take it back are you?

Original post by RobML

Nice personal comments :smile:

Good, you agree on the sexism part no need to make a poll!

Original post by ElaArslan

I don't see it as sexist though? As I said before you're talking out of context and without understanding of what I'm trying to say. I don't need opinion from someone who just attacks people :smile:

I've already tried to be reasonable but apparently that doesn't work with you.

Good defence mechanisms, but they have no place in rational discussion I'm afraid.

Shall I make a thread and ask TSR if it's sexist to get you to see it?

Reply 53

RobML

Original post by xylas

Good, you agree on the sexism part no need to make a poll!

Good defence mechanisms, but they have no place in rational discussion I'm afraid.

Shall I make a thread and ask TSR if it's sexist to get you to see it?

It said it could be construed as sexist. It would only truly sexist if said lesser openness of emotion was suggested as being part of the natural order and shouldn't/can't be changed. Make a poll if you want though.

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Reply 54

xylas

Original post by RobML

I know what you said and that's good enough for me :smile:

Reply 55

hezzlington

Original post by RobML

'Traditionally masculine' men aren't emotionless, blank-faced robots are they?

But, you have to define what suppressing emotion means. Men get angry. Men get upset. Men get depressed. Men get anxious. What is this idea of 'traditional masculinity believes that communicating emotion is weak'. That is not a pillar of masculinity.

No ACTUAL man thinks that.

There is, however, a time and a place for conveying emotions.

Reply 56

ElaArslan

Original post by xylas

Shall I make a thread and ask TSR if it's sexist to get you to see it?

Babygirl, tryna give me some attention aww.

Let me just make my point again cause you don't seem to understand it without taking your head out your arse.

I believe that men don't know how to show emotion because they're taught not to. You've studied sociology so you should know about canalisation, manipulation, verbal appilation etc etc. Ever since birth, society feeds masculinity into the male brain. As for women - although not as much anymore - this is also done with femininity. Just like how in the past society would expect women to be quiet in public, they were taught to be that way by their family. I'm saying this because this is what I've seen in my life, and what I've learnt in my sociology lessons. For example my older male cousins don't know how to approach a relationship issue because they can't show their emotions, since they have no idea how to. As I've said before, whether you agree with me or not, maybe your point of view about masculinity depends on what you have witnessed. Also what you have learnt in your own sociology lessons too. I was in no way intending to sound sexist, AS IVE SAID BEFORE; this is your opinion. I'm not expecting you to agree, just to understand what I'm trying to say :smile:

Reply 57

hezzlington

Original post by ElaArslan

I believe that men don't know how to show emotion because they're taught not to

Nobody has ever taught me to not show emotion.

Reply 58

Rhythmical

Original post by hezzlington

My family in Pakistan were part of a very small christian minority in a community of muslims. They were oppressed. I wasn't born then, they left and split up and some moved to Australia and some to England. I doubt I will ever experience oppression in England.

I also know a teacher that was severely bullied by other teachers and he eventually ended up quitting. He lasted 1 year.

This reminds me of this article of a Pakistani Muslim family who were distraught over the treatment they received regarding the Christianity over Islam and converted to Christianity, thus facing backlash. With regards to your teacher and mine, I find it disgusting as to why it happens because teachers are extremely important and I get that teachers are all on different pay slips/levels but there is no need to become a bully and put people down.