Schools should not bend over backwards for disruptive kids. Discuss

I am not saying naughty children should have no boundaries or punishment and we shouldn't attempt to get them to behave acceptably. What I am saying is that giving constant negative feedback (via punishment) while ignoring the root issues (low self esteem, trauma, attachment difficulties, anxiety, etc) doesn't work. You only turn that young person off to education and all the people around them who could have made a positive impact. For the extremes of behaviour the root issue needs to be dealt with and doing that is going to have more of a positive impact than threatening them to have to spend more time at home.

As for children doing well in dire circumstances, yes, of course. Some people deal with horrible abuse and come out as a pretty well rounded and healthy individual but others don't. You can't erase one child's pain and say they aren't allowed to struggle just because another child managed better.

I see nothing in those links I have specifically disagreed with. The question was whether schools should put resources into difficult kids, i.e. whether they 'deserve' time/money. I have said I believe they do due to the reasons I've explained. Punishment must be consistent but it must always come with the opportunity to make reparations and improve with a clean slate (i.e. the child should ALWAYS apologise and then get to come in to a member of staff who is cheerful as if nothing happened the following lesson).

I think probably the people it's hardest for are those in lower sets at school (where the naughty kids are) who are hard working and have to cope with half a class of trouble makers. Those are the kids who miss out on support because it's all going to controlling the loud kids. We should also be making those students a priority. It's also a potential argument for scrapping setting as then badly behaved students would be more spread out, watering down their effect on others.

It seems we don't actually disagree that much. Except "I've said that threats to send them home will not help and they won't. " = Not every child may see it as a punishment, but it will at least protect the other children, who have the right to be safe, too. You can send them to a PRU if you prefer this.

Now, making a child "apologise", IMO that is something that does not work. Either they mean it, in which case it is not necessary, or they don't mean it, in which case they are just mocking their victims. In neither case it is a "reparation".

I think children should be intensely streamed according to their behaviour rather than 'ability'. Quieter kids suffer a lot in classrooms, sometimes it's unbearable and (in my case) can lead to social anxiety. Mixing quiet kids with loud moron kids always leads to teasing and bullying. If you dread every single lesson because of the people in your class, you're more likely to under-perform. It's appalling that little is done about this and that being quiet is actually considered a concern by most teachers. Not everyone is a social butterfly. So many children at secondary school would be less miserable if only state schools realised that and addressed it.

Spreading the badly behaved kids out doesn't work either. All it takes is a couple of troublemakers to ruin it for everyone. It's better to round up all those kids into a 'naughty' class with some horrible teacher, so at least the quieter kids won't have to worry about being picked on.

bullying needs to be dealt with if it occurs and money should go towards making sure quiet kids get extra activities and so on to boost their confidence but shoving all the bad kids in a room together and writing them off is not a solution, some of those kids could be decent people given the chance and I believe all kids should be given the chance

So, what is the solution?

My school did nothing. Their response to bullying was to ignore it. I was told they'd sort it out if I did come in. They didn't. In the end, I had to change tutor groups just to get away from the bullies.

Oh, and I was told that sexual harassment was ok too.