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The Brexit move has confirmed my Referendum choice: I'm out.

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Reply 20
Avatar for 1420787
1420787
3
Original post by Dodgypirate
I watched the other night and it has cemented my decision, I want out of the EU.


It's the first and potentially last time we get to vote out of of the EU, so I'm going to take my chance.


If you are for Brexit or you're undecided, I implore you watch it.

I also asked a few people I know who are 'In' whether they knew how many presidents exist at the head of the EU and if the EU Parliament had any control over laws -- none could answer.

Fact is the majority of us have no clue how the EU government works.


Many people have no clue how the passing of laws works in the UK. Not understanding something is not in itself a reason to go against it...
Original post by offhegoes
Many people have no clue how the passing of laws works in the UK. Not understanding something is not in itself a reason to go against it...


Which is a shame given it isn't even complicated.
Original post by Noodle0
I will be voting out as well. With the amount of scaremongering, lies and propaganda that has been coming from David Cameron and the remain party is disgusting. When Dave is saying Brexit could lead to Europe descending into war, claims ISIS terror chief and Putin would be 'happy' if we vote leave and now with proof of even plotting an anit-brexit campaign during the EU renegotiation I am questioning whether he is fit to be the PM.

As I heard someone say, the terrible tactics and scaremongering we have seen in this referendum is making me think that they stand to loose something, it's not making me think that I stand to loose something.


It's ok to be biased. But I hope you are aware of "terrible tactics and scaremongering" on the other side too.

Like how EU is comparable to Nazi Germany
Like how the POTUS's ancestry is a key factor for his perspective
Like how BJ can negotiate a free trade deal (with EU) post brexit ... lolwut.

also

Regarding the terror chiefs being happy - it's is a legitimate claim when you take the director of Europol's response into account. Security cooperation among EU members will be more costly and time consuming should UK leave the EU.

Regarding Putin being happy - a disconnected and less powerful Europe is what Russia would prefer than a unified/co-operative bloc.

Regarding Europe descending into war - that's one claim I can seemingly admit that lacked substance. However the other 2 are sound even though they can come across sensational for a layman.
(edited 7 years ago)
Original post by TaintedLight
It's ok to be biased. But I hope you are aware of "terrible tactics and scaremongering" on the other side too.

Like how EU is comparable to Nazi Germany
Like how the POTUS's ancestry is a key factor for his perspective
Like how BJ can negotiate a free trade deal (with EU) post brexit ... lolwut.

also

Regarding the terror chiefs being happy - it's is a legitimate claim when you take the director of Europol's response into account. Security cooperation among EU members will be more costly and time consuming should UK leave the EU.

Regarding Putin being happy - a disconnected and less powerful Europe is what Russia would prefer than a unified/co-operative bloc.

Regarding Europe descending into war - that's one claim I can seemingly admit that lacked substance. However the other 2 are sound even though they can come across sensational for a layman.


So why is Europol going to suddenly be more expensive and less effective if we leave? I mean, you can say that it will but I could also say that the sky is green too. And regarding Putin, for the point to not be somewhat mooted it relies on the assumption that he will use that somehow less powerful (something else not explained) bloc to mount an offensive; last I checked this was a vote on the EU, not NATO.

Posted from TSR Mobile
Original post by Jammy Duel
So why is Europol going to suddenly be more expensive and less effective if we leave? I mean, you can say that it will but I could also say that the sky is green too. And regarding Putin, for the point to not be somewhat mooted it relies on the assumption that he will use that somehow less powerful (something else not explained) bloc to mount an offensive; last I checked this was a vote on the EU, not NATO.

Posted from TSR Mobile



1) As part of a union, the safety of it's members holds higher precedence. This is essentially a contractual obligation. UK will be indeed be "at the back of the queue" in this front as well.

Besides if you google Europol's stance on Brexit like i did, you will come across this helpful link
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/uk/brexit-would-hurt-police-cooperation-says-europol-head-34736183.html


2) ...An economic decay is a stepping stone for unemployment, riots and probably other civil disobedience movements. Should this happen Russia can play its part in further aggravating the issue like how we saw it happen in Ukraine as well as, to a minor extend, in Germany.

And that's besides the point. You tell me. Does Putin prefer an economically weak and disorganized Europe or a unified Europe?
(edited 7 years ago)
Reply 25
Avatar for inhuman
inhuman
2
Original post by Dodgypirate
I watched the other night and it has cemented my decision, I want out of the EU.


It's the first and potentially last time we get to vote out of of the EU, so I'm going to take my chance.


If you are for Brexit or you're undecided, I implore you watch it.

I also asked a few people I know who are 'In' whether they knew how many presidents exist at the head of the EU and if the EU Parliament had any control over laws -- none could answer.

Fact is the majority of us have no clue how the EU government works.


So ignorance is being celebrated now?
Reply 26
Avatar for inhuman
inhuman
2
ITT

Oh hey guys, looky here, I found something to substantiate and strengthen my own bias. How amazing is that?
Original post by TaintedLight
1) As part of a union, the safety of it's members holds higher precedence. This is essentially a contractual obligation. UK will be indeed be "at the back of the queue" in this front as well.

Besides if you google Europol's stance on Brexit like i did, you will come across this helpful link
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/uk/brexit-would-hurt-police-cooperation-says-europol-head-34736183.html


2) ...An economic decay is a stepping stone for unemployment, riots and probably other civil disobedience movements. Should this happen Russia can play its part in further aggravating the issue like how we saw it happen in Ukraine as well as, to a minor extend, in Germany.

And that's besides the point. You tell me. Does Putin prefer an economically weak and disorganized Europe or a unified Europe?


Would you care giving me sources for when the rioting and other civil disobedience happened due to 2007-8 financial crisis, which was miles worse than any brexit slowdown would be given worse case is likely a light recession?

Posted from TSR Mobile
I'm voting out. I should like to trade with our partners as any other nation, and we can work towards lowering barriers, but this does not require a political union.
Original post by inhuman
So ignorance is being celebrated now?


I don't quite understand your point, and it is very ironic. It is not ignorant to review sources of information and come to a conclusion, it is to not do it and say that people are ignorant, although you don't seem to have enough understanding to actually address the arguments in question.

You could say it is propaganda, it is propaganda, so is the remain camp.
Original post by Jammy Duel
Would you care giving me sources for when the rioting and other civil disobedience happened due to 2007-8 financial crisis, which was miles worse than any brexit slowdown would be given worse case is likely a light recession?

Posted from TSR Mobile


heh are you honestly telling me as long as the meltdown isn't as bad as 2008, a degree of economic crisis is acceptable? :laugh:

Also I'm interested to know how leaving EU will result in what you call the "light recession". :biggrin:
Original post by TaintedLight
heh are you honestly telling me as long as the meltdown isn't as bad as 2008, a degree of economic crisis is acceptable? :laugh:

Also I'm interested to know how leaving EU will result in what you call the "light recession". :biggrin:


The very basis of your argument is that the reaction will be far worse than for a more serious event.

Why don't you read the treasury report given they're the ones that believe there will be a recession, not I (and that recession leads logically to a conversion that Britain is economically better or in the longer term)

Posted from TSR Mobile
Original post by TaintedLight
heh are you honestly telling me as long as the meltdown isn't as bad as 2008, a degree of economic crisis is acceptable? :laugh:

Also I'm interested to know how leaving EU will result in what you call the "light recession". :biggrin:


He seems to be objecting to your description of it as a 'meltdown', it would be a minor recession apparently, which is not so serious it would significantly effect most people. It wouldn't be worth giving up our sovereignty for.
Original post by Jammy Duel
The very basis of your argument is that the reaction will be far worse than for a more serious event.

Why don't you read the treasury report given they're the ones that believe there will be a recession, not I (and that recession leads logically to a conversion that Britain is economically better or in the longer term)

Posted from TSR Mobile


...Revisiting my earlier post, i believe this is what you are referring to:

"An economic decay is a stepping stone for unemployment, riots and probably other civil disobedience movements."

If you are asking for an example for the above, then google what happened in Greece in 2008. Now, I really don't think the UK will share a similar fate, but there will be instability and there will more people wasting their lives in demonstrations and debt. So my conclusion is yes UK will go south. How deep that would be conjecture.

Now either you spit what exactly YOU think makes UK better off or just end this ffs


Original post by George VI
He seems to be objecting to your description of it as a 'meltdown', it would be a minor recession apparently, which is not so serious it would significantly effect most people. It wouldn't be worth giving up our sovereignty for.


I feel like people link EU to a school ground where one kid dominates and the rest cower :doh:
Original post by TaintedLight
.
I feel like people link EU to a school ground where one kid dominates and the rest cower :doh:


Sounds like an accurate description
Watch out. Any right wing opinion on here will be detested by the hordes of left wing idiots
Reply 36
Avatar for inhuman
inhuman
2
Original post by Dieselblue
Watch out. Any right wing opinion on here will be detested by the hordes of left wing idiots


Such a persecution complex.
Original post by TaintedLight
...Revisiting my earlier post, i believe this is what you are referring to:

"An economic decay is a stepping stone for unemployment, riots and probably other civil disobedience movements."

If you are asking for an example for the above, then google what happened in Greece in 2008. Now, I really don't think the UK will share a similar fate, but there will be instability and there will more people wasting their lives in demonstrations and debt. So my conclusion is yes UK will go south. How deep that would be conjecture.

Now either you spit what exactly YOU think makes UK better off or just end this ffs




I feel like people link EU to a school ground where one kid dominates and the rest cower :doh:


Perhaps this graph higlights why:



What happened in Greece is on par with the Great Depression, except without the recovery bit; we're talking about, even from the doom and gloom hyperbolic treasury, at most a 1.3% contraction (and then growth AT LEAST on par with remaining).
Reply 38
Avatar for inhuman
inhuman
2
Original post by Jammy Duel
Perhaps this graph higlights why:



What happened in Greece is on par with the Great Depression, except without the recovery bit; we're talking about, even from the doom and gloom hyperbolic treasury, at most a 1.3% contraction (and then growth AT LEAST on par with remaining).


You are quite right.

But the poster you quoted said himself that it won't be as bad as Greece, so why post this?
Original post by Jammy Duel
Perhaps this graph higlights why:



What happened in Greece is on par with the Great Depression, except without the recovery bit; we're talking about, even from the doom and gloom hyperbolic treasury, at most a 1.3% contraction (and then growth AT LEAST on par with remaining).


....So your point is 1.3% fall in UK GDP post Brexit is insignificant so UK should bite the bullet?

In contrast to a scenario where there would be no fall?

How much jobs will Brexit cost?

Shouldn't major focus be on trade and how Brexit will impact the welfare of the workers in the UK? A GDP growth rate for a developed economy is really irrelevant.... no?

Original post by George VI
Sounds like an accurate description
That's not an accurate description :fyi:
(edited 7 years ago)

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