Whether it's terms like Islamophobia, instead of Muslimphobia, the knee jerk reaction of "Well not all Muslims are ..." or the last desperate lunge at smearing anyone addressing the problem as racist, the tactic is simple, avoid the conversation at all costs.
This is unfortunately true of too many defensive otherwise moderate Muslims and, even more disgracefully, masochistic (self-proclaimed) liberals.
Smear, accuse, shout, lie and, when possible, turn the discussion into a web of Orwellian double speak.
Whether it's terms like Islamophobia, instead of Muslimphobia, the knee jerk reaction of "Well not all Muslims are ..." or the last desperate lunge at smearing anyone addressing the problem as racist, the tactic is simple, avoid the conversation at all costs.
This is unfortunately true of too many defensive otherwise moderate Muslims and, even more disgracefully, masochistic (self-proclaimed) liberals.
Smear, accuse, shout, lie and, when possible, turn the discussion into a web of Orwellian double speak.
The many issues regarding Islam in its current form. Terrorism, integration into western societies with influx of migrants from Muslim majority countries etc.
The many issues regarding Islam in its current form. Terrorism, integration into western societies with influx of migrants from Muslim majority countries etc.
What do you mean by ''current form''?
Islamic extremism is bad, yes. What do you want to discuss about this?
It's ironic you should make a thread about people trying to muddy the water and provide apologetics for theocracy and violent religion, and then the first guy that posts begins muddying the water. 'The problem isn't Islam it's extremism and/or fundamentalists'. Dancing around the issue that the fundamentalists are violent because the fundamentals of Islam are violent.
Islamic extremism is bad, yes. What do you want to discuss about this?
There is a very real mainstream interpretation of Islam that is considered a direct incitement to violence by Muslims, every survey and poll attests to this.
In the largest of it's kind some 33,000 Muslims were questioned by PEW research across several countries, 27% believed in violence in the defense of, and were being called to do so, by Islam. The survey itself was bias, as several countries were too dangerous to enter at the time. So in all likelihood the number would most likely have went up a few percent.
Instead of trying to convince us, the targets of Muslim violence, that Islam doesn't call for violence why not spend your time trying to convince the Muslims who believe it does. Do you like being a de facto apologist for theocracy ? We have Muslims the world over telling us that Islam calls them to murder, and you are here trying to convince people that they are what ? Lying ? That they aren't real Muslims ?
A good example of this was the C4 documentary 'What British Muslims Really Think'
200 complaints to Ofcom saying that it increases the risk of islamophobia. So now even telling the truth about what muslims think risks 'islamophobia' and as a result we shouldn't be told what muslims think.
Instead of trying to convince us, the targets of Muslim violence, that Islam doesn't call for violence why not spend your time trying to convince the Muslims who believe it does. Do you like being a de facto apologist for theocracy ? We have Muslims the world over telling us that Islam calls them to murder, and you are here trying to convince people that they are what ? Lying ? That they aren't real Muslims ?
What... are you talking about?
You can ramble on about how I'm trying to convince you that Islam isn't violent, that I'm an apologist for theocracy, etc, but this isn't either what I have said or believe.
I would like to know what conversation the OP wants to have about Islam and Muslims, as I have asked.
Islamic extremism is bad, yes. What do you want to discuss about this?
How to stop the lack of intergration into the UK. The ability to draw a line where cultural sensitivities do not trump ideals. The questions, risks and problems with mass immigration. FGM and honour killings. The disappearing of women under black sacks. Terrorism. I could go on.
You can ramble on about how I'm trying to convince you that Islam isn't violent, that I'm an apologist for theocracy, etc, but this isn't either what I have said or believe.
I would like to know what conversation the OP wants to have about Islam and Muslims, as I have asked.
Sorry, I was away for a few days. I answered below.
A good example of this was the C4 documentary 'What British Muslims Really Think'
200 complaints to Ofcom saying that it increases the risk of islamophobia. So now even telling the truth about what muslims think risks 'islamophobia' and as a result we shouldn't be told what muslims think.
It's a nonsense. the conversation surrounding the topic is happening whether they like it or not. The question is how do you frame it? By hatred and lies or by fact and rationality.
When that poll was released a few weeks ago the reaction of some was "Well not all Muslims ....." Yes, that's exactly what the poll said!!!!
Having an opinion is a criminal offence these days, especially under the UK's new draconian laws. That's why I don't openly criticize organized religion, especially around people with strong religious convictions.
The many issues regarding Islam in its current form. Terrorism, integration into western societies with influx of migrants from Muslim majority countries etc.
Yeah, I never hear anyone talk about these things. Especially not on this site.
Yeah, I never hear anyone talk about these things. Especially not on this site.
The media and governments do not talk about it honestly. They refuse to make a link between terrorism and religious ideology.
As I said, the conversation is happening anyway and it is unlikely to be a rational one if those in power leave it to Internet forums, where even a cat video can lead to racist comments.
Having an opinion is a criminal offence these days, especially under the UK's new draconian laws. That's why I don't openly criticize organized religion, especially around people with strong religious convictions.
It is becoming scary and as a society we need to look in the mirror because it isn't always the media and government's fault.
The many issues regarding Islam in its current form. Terrorism, integration into western societies with influx of migrants from Muslim majority countries etc.
Its not bloody well working then, there's very little talk of much else round here.