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What laws do the Brexiteers want to change?

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Original post by typonaut
Actually, most of them do have nice short titles that everyone uses. But, I don't know, you could maybe match the list of UK bills - ie find 21 EU pieces of legislation?

Here are a couple of examples:

The Treaty of Lisbon: Treaty of Lisbon amending the Treaty on European Union and the Treaty establishing the European Community

The InfoSoc Directive: Directive 2001/29/EC of the European Parliament and of the Council of 22 May 2001 on the harmonisation of certain aspects of copyright and related rights in the information society


The "short titles" you offer are the long titles, the short title is just the "Directive 2001/29/EC" bit, the rest is the long title, which is admittedly shorter than ours. If, for instance, we take the Equalities Act 2010, the short title is "Equalities Act 2010", the long title is
"An Act to make provision to require Ministers of the Crown and others when making strategic decisions about the exercise of their functions to have regard to the desirability of reducing socio-economic inequalities; to reform and harmonise equality law and restate the greater part of the enactments relating to discrimination and harassment related to certain personal characteristics; to enable certain employers to be required to publish information about the differences in pay between male and female employees; to prohibit victimisation in certain circumstances; to require the exercise of certain functions to be with regard to the need to eliminate discrimination and other prohibited conduct; to enable duties to be imposed in relation to the exercise of public procurement functions; to increase equality of opportunity; to amend the law relating to rights and responsibilities in family relationships; and for connected purposes."


Oh, and BTW, that act combines several earlier pieces of equalities legislation pre-dating EU mandates for such legislation, both primary and secondary, into a single Act.
Reply 181
Original post by typonaut
Please cite a source for this claim. Apart from anything else the EC cannot give permission - only the CJEU can say whether a measure a member state has taken is compliant or not.


The European Commission has supervised Member States' massive bank bailouts under the EU's state aid rules to ensure that the bailouts did not give rise to major distortions of competition within the EU's Single Market. In particular, the Commission required substantial restructuring of banks receiving aid (including major cuts in their activities) to ensure their future viability without further public support and to offset distortions of competition caused by the subsidies received (Examples: Northern Rock more than £30 billion, RBS more than £20 billion, Lloyds - £23 billion, ING over €22 billion, Hypo Real Estate €175 billion, HSH Nordbank - €30 billion, LBBW over €17 billion etc.). This ensured that healthy banks were not put out of business by unfair competition from banks receiving subsidies, whilst allowing the banking sector to continue to finance investment and so create jobs.

The Commission has authorised up to €4.5 trillion (1/3 of EU GDP) of state support, of which €1.6 trillion has been used.

http://ec.europa.eu/europe2020/glossary/en/index_2_en.htmō


Original post by typonaut
The point I was making about national security and subsidies to state industries is that national security is not an EU competence. So if you make that claim, and can defend it (as some states have), then there is nothing the EU can do about it.


Competition policy is an EU competence.
Reply 182
Original post by Jammy Duel
The "short titles" you offer are the long titles, the short title is just the "Directive 2001/29/EC":


By short title I believe that you meant something other than a numeric document reference, that's why I used "The Lisbon Treaty" or "The InfoSoc Directive". These are common shorthand for the referenced legislation.

Oh, and BTW, that act combines several earlier pieces of equalities legislation pre-dating EU mandates for such legislation, both primary and secondary, into a single Act.


BTW, I do have a first class law degree, a compulsory module of that is EU law, and I did an optional module on human rights law as well as public international law. Thanks for putting me straight. ;/
Reply 183
Original post by Tamora
Competition policy is an EU competence.


All you have pointed out is that national governments have had an eye on EU policy - not that the EC has given them permission.

As I previously wrote, you can get away with state aid if it is dressed-up as something that is beyond EU competency - ie national security. I really don't think there is anything controversial in arguing that coal or steel production could be described as a national security issue. I also doubt that any government would pay much heed to the EC if its banking system were crashing - this is absolutely a national security issue.

It does not matter that competition is an EU competence, if you say the problem at hand is outside that competence (ie national security).

I think it was Clauswitz who said that "War is the continuation of politics by other means". Kissinger, referring to Lenin, said "politics is the continuation of war by other means" (turning Clauswitz on his head) and others have said "economics is the continuation of war by other means".

Economics is a national security issue.

You can read this press release from the EC which tacitly recognises this problem in the electricity generating sector:

http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_IP-16-1372_en.htm
(edited 7 years ago)
Reply 184
Original post by typonaut
All you have pointed out is that national governments have had an eye on EU policy - not that the EC has given them permission.



From my previous post ...

"The Commission has authorised up to €4.5 trillion (1/3 of EU GDP) of state support, of which €1.6 trillion has been used."


So when the Commission authorised state support, ie bank bailouts, that's different to giving permission in your mind? EU policy isn't advisory or optional ... it's mandatory.

I'm really unsure how your reasoning works there. :rolleyes:
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Reply 187
Original post by Tamora
I'm really unsure how your reasoning works there. :rolleyes:


It is pretty simple: the EC cannot "authorise" anything, it doesn't have the power to say "this is acceptable in EU law". The only body that has that power is the CJEU. The EC might be able to say "we don't care", but that's about the limit of its powers, if that.
Reply 188
Is this a particular EU migrant rant, or are you just ranting about migrants in general?
Reply 189
Original post by typonaut
It is pretty simple: the EC cannot "authorise" anything, it doesn't have the power to say "this is acceptable in EU law". The only body that has that power is the CJEU. The EC might be able to say "we don't care", but that's about the limit of its powers, if that.


Well that's a first ... an EU supporter effectively saying the Commission lied. Or how else am I supposed to interpret what the Commission says?

Again, on bank bailouts, from the EC itself ...

"The Commission has authorised up to €4.5 trillion (1/3 of EU GDP) of state support, of which €1.6 trillion has been used."

Are you actually saying the EC had no power to authorise the bank bailouts despite what it says? What's your source for this?

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