UNPOPULAR OPINION: Slut shaming can be justified
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Original post by minimarshmallow
Or, I can exercise extreme caution when having sex, continue to take my pill, make my partner use a condom and also know that the morning after pill or abortion are options, at least until such point as I can look to get my tubes tied by the NHS.
Sex isn't just to have kids, sex can be quite fun, which is probably why most people have it. It's not a hobby, my hobbies are reading and writing blog posts and book reviews and working out and watching TV etc. Sex isn't even in the same category as these things.
Sex isn't just to have kids, sex can be quite fun, which is probably why most people have it. It's not a hobby, my hobbies are reading and writing blog posts and book reviews and working out and watching TV etc. Sex isn't even in the same category as these things.
There are lots of things that can be just as much fun that don't require so many precautions ....
Seriously I don't see the point, sex itself is a social construct of "fun" - you could have more fun doing something else that society does not consider "fun".... Why be dictated to by social norms? Especially since its pretty dangerous and time wasting.
Original post by FredOrJohn
There are lots of things that can be just as much fun that don't require so many precautions ....
Seriously I don't see the point, sex itself is a social construct of "fun" - you could have more fun doing something else that society does not consider "fun".... Why be dictated to by social norms? Especially since its pretty dangerous and time wasting.
Seriously I don't see the point, sex itself is a social construct of "fun" - you could have more fun doing something else that society does not consider "fun".... Why be dictated to by social norms? Especially since its pretty dangerous and time wasting.
If I want to take those precautions, then that's my choice to do so.
Skydiving is also dangerous and time wasting. Why should I follow this societal norm that says that I'm a slut if I do have sex, and avoid it?
Original post by FredOrJohn
There are lots of things that can be just as much fun that don't require so many precautions ....
Seriously I don't see the point, sex itself is a social construct of "fun" - you could have more fun doing something else that society does not consider "fun".... Why be dictated to by social norms? Especially since its pretty dangerous and time wasting.
Seriously I don't see the point, sex itself is a social construct of "fun" - you could have more fun doing something else that society does not consider "fun".... Why be dictated to by social norms? Especially since its pretty dangerous and time wasting.
We are biologically programmed to have sex, in the majority of the population there is an innate need to have sex. Sex brings pleasure. Pleasure is not a social construct, it's a really nice feeling.
Going hiking or playing chess will not bring the same amount of pleasure to many people as sex will. There is a difference between having sex because you feel pressured to by society or by a person and having sex because you want to for your own pleasure. Having sex because you want to is not being dictated by social norms, having sex because you feel like you have to is.
That's like saying 'Stop eating chocolate because most of the population likes chocolate and you could have more fun eating carrots because I love carrots and if you eat chocolate you are only eating it to fit in with society. Also, chocolate is dangerous as it is bad for your health, but why eat it anyway because I think it tastes gross and don't see the point of it'. See how ridiculous this sounds? The difference is, sex is good for your health.
(edited 7 years ago)
Original post by Laurenloops
We are biologically programmed to have sex, in the majority of the population there is an innate need to have sex. Sex brings pleasure. Pleasure is not a social construct, it's a really nice feeling.
Going hiking or playing chess will not bring the same amount of pleasure to many people as sex will. There is a difference between having sex because you feel pressured to by society or by a person and having sex because you want to for your own pleasure. Having sex because you want to is not being dictated by social norms, having sex because you feel like you have to is.
That's like saying 'Stop eating chocolate because most of the population likes chocolate and you could have more fun eating carrots because I love carrots and if you eat chocolate you are only eating it to fit in with society. Also, chocolate is dangerous as it is bad for your health, but why eat it anyway because I think it tastes gross and don't see the point of it'. See how ridiculous this sounds? The difference is, sex is good for your health.
Going hiking or playing chess will not bring the same amount of pleasure to many people as sex will. There is a difference between having sex because you feel pressured to by society or by a person and having sex because you want to for your own pleasure. Having sex because you want to is not being dictated by social norms, having sex because you feel like you have to is.
That's like saying 'Stop eating chocolate because most of the population likes chocolate and you could have more fun eating carrots because I love carrots and if you eat chocolate you are only eating it to fit in with society. Also, chocolate is dangerous as it is bad for your health, but why eat it anyway because I think it tastes gross and don't see the point of it'. See how ridiculous this sounds? The difference is, sex is good for your health.
Not so, if you go back in history, a look at nearly all the old tales one thing stands out, "do not have sex when young" - go and see the world and DO THINGS before you settle down and have a sex life.
The collective wisdom contained in Jason and the Argonauts, the bible stories, Taticus writing about the success of the Gemans, St Augustines Confession, Adam and Eve, all point to "do not give in to social norms or biology (if you must), and avoid sex until later in life".
Or in literature:
Chiron had told Jason that without the aid of Orpheus, the Argonauts would never be able to pass the Sirens—the same Sirens encountered by Odysseus in Homer's epic poemthe Odyssey. The Sirens lived on three small, rocky islands called Sirenum scopuli and sang beautiful songs that enticed sailors to come to them, which resulted in the crashing of their ship into the islands. When Orpheus heard their voices, he drew his lyre and played music that was more beautiful and louder, drowning out the Sirens' bewitching songs.
Original post by lilavocado
I'm sorry but if I dress up and wear a crop top or something more 'revealing' then i don't do it for the attention. I do it because I want to wear that. I don't give a damn what others think. That doesn't mean I'm not "truly beautiful". Everyone is beautiful. I'm sorry I'm "ugly" because I have a mind for myself and I do things for myself.
Don't kid yourself.
Original post by FredOrJohn
Not so, if you go back in history, a look at nearly all the old tales one thing stands out, "do not have sex when young" - go and see the world and DO THINGS before you settle down and have a sex life.
The collective wisdom contained in Jason and the Argonauts, the bible stories, Taticus writing about the success of the Gemans, St Augustines Confession, Adam and Eve, all point to "do not give in to social norms or biology (if you must), and avoid sex until later in life".
Or in literature:
Chiron had told Jason that without the aid of Orpheus, the Argonauts would never be able to pass the Sirens—the same Sirens encountered by Odysseus in Homer's epic poemthe Odyssey. The Sirens lived on three small, rocky islands called Sirenum scopuli and sang beautiful songs that enticed sailors to come to them, which resulted in the crashing of their ship into the islands. When Orpheus heard their voices, he drew his lyre and played music that was more beautiful and louder, drowning out the Sirens' bewitching songs.
The collective wisdom contained in Jason and the Argonauts, the bible stories, Taticus writing about the success of the Gemans, St Augustines Confession, Adam and Eve, all point to "do not give in to social norms or biology (if you must), and avoid sex until later in life".
Or in literature:
Chiron had told Jason that without the aid of Orpheus, the Argonauts would never be able to pass the Sirens—the same Sirens encountered by Odysseus in Homer's epic poemthe Odyssey. The Sirens lived on three small, rocky islands called Sirenum scopuli and sang beautiful songs that enticed sailors to come to them, which resulted in the crashing of their ship into the islands. When Orpheus heard their voices, he drew his lyre and played music that was more beautiful and louder, drowning out the Sirens' bewitching songs.
Back when contraception wasn't reliable, this made sense.
But basically I should listen to old societal norms as reflected in historical text, or new societal norms as reflected by current society...
I'm gonna go with the one that assumes that as a grown ass woman, I can make my own decisions.
(edited 7 years ago)
Original post by JPO92
'Slut' is completely offensive as a word, you should be shamed for using such vulgarities against people who have no impact on your life.
Using the word "slut" doesn't have any impact on anyone's life either though.
What determines these acts to be wrong?
To this day, no one has been able to give me an answer to that question that can be applied to everyone and is completely objective.
The behaviour some label as that of a "slut" is wrong in their opinion, not wrong in fact, which means when you're slut-shaming, you're merely trying to force your beliefs onto the lives of others. Unless it's your life, your beliefs are irrelevant.
To this day, no one has been able to give me an answer to that question that can be applied to everyone and is completely objective.
The behaviour some label as that of a "slut" is wrong in their opinion, not wrong in fact, which means when you're slut-shaming, you're merely trying to force your beliefs onto the lives of others. Unless it's your life, your beliefs are irrelevant.
Original post by tazarooni89
Using the word "slut" doesn't have any impact on anyone's life either though.
It does when it is directed at someone with the intention of causing them psychological harm.
I stand by everything I have said 100%
Original post by JPO92
It does when it is directed at someone with the intention of causing them psychological harm.
I stand by everything I have said 100%
I stand by everything I have said 100%
lol. Anyone can claim anything causes them "psychological harm".
Original post by tazarooni89
lol. Anyone can claim anything causes them "psychological harm".
So, what, you'd just rather laugh at them than avoid using a word that isn't necessary for general conversation?
If someone has a psychological reaction to the word 'the' then there's a problem there that needs to be worked through. If someone has a psychological reaction to people literally unnecessarily insulting them with the express intention of wanting to cause psychological harm, maybe the people calling women 'sluts' need to take a look at their own behaviour.
Original post by tazarooni89
lol. Anyone can claim anything causes them "psychological harm".
They can, but it's up to everyone to use good judgement on whether someone is fudging the system or telling the truth.
Original post by minimarshmallow
So, what, you'd just rather laugh at them than avoid using a word that isn't necessary for general conversation?
If someone has a psychological reaction to the word 'the' then there's a problem there that needs to be worked through. If someone has a psychological reaction to people literally unnecessarily insulting them with the express intention of wanting to cause psychological harm, maybe the people calling women 'sluts' need to take a look at their own behaviour.
If someone has a psychological reaction to the word 'the' then there's a problem there that needs to be worked through. If someone has a psychological reaction to people literally unnecessarily insulting them with the express intention of wanting to cause psychological harm, maybe the people calling women 'sluts' need to take a look at their own behaviour.
Free speech doesn't care about your feelings.
If you can't handle it, then get out of the public arena.
The reason it is shamed is because if a woman sleeps around with loads of dudes and then gets pregnant, she might not know who the father is and will be pregnant and the father won't have the option to parent the child.
I think the reason it isn't shameful for men is because they have no risk of being stuck with a child growing inside of them.
However i think in the days of very effective contraception, it shouldn't be shamed so much as there's no risk involved, it's just people having fun.
I think the reason it isn't shameful for men is because they have no risk of being stuck with a child growing inside of them.
However i think in the days of very effective contraception, it shouldn't be shamed so much as there's no risk involved, it's just people having fun.
Original post by TheKian
The reason it is shamed is because if a woman sleeps around with loads of dudes and then gets pregnant, she might not know who the father is and will be pregnant and the father won't have the option to parent the child.
I think the reason it isn't shameful for men is because they have no risk of being stuck with a child growing inside of them.
However i think in the days of very effective contraception, it shouldn't be shamed so much as there's no risk involved, it's just people having fun.
I think the reason it isn't shameful for men is because they have no risk of being stuck with a child growing inside of them.
However i think in the days of very effective contraception, it shouldn't be shamed so much as there's no risk involved, it's just people having fun.
Its not fun. Any addict will tell you that they would rather not have the addiction.
AA would advocate total abstinence.
I would tend to agree, its better to just have sex with only the person you are married to or intend to marry.
Original post by FredOrJohn
Its not fun. Any addict will tell you that they would rather not have the addiction.
AA would advocate total abstinence.
I would tend to agree, its better to just have sex with only the person you are married to or intend to marry.
AA would advocate total abstinence.
I would tend to agree, its better to just have sex with only the person you are married to or intend to marry.
There's clearly more reasons to having sex than to have a child. Otherwise there would't be such a high market for contraception.
Original post by minimarshmallow
So, what, you'd just rather laugh at them than avoid using a word that isn't necessary for general conversation?
If someone has a psychological reaction to the word 'the' then there's a problem there that needs to be worked through. If someone has a psychological reaction to people literally unnecessarily insulting them with the express intention of wanting to cause psychological harm, maybe the people calling women 'sluts' need to take a look at their own behaviour.
If someone has a psychological reaction to the word 'the' then there's a problem there that needs to be worked through. If someone has a psychological reaction to people literally unnecessarily insulting them with the express intention of wanting to cause psychological harm, maybe the people calling women 'sluts' need to take a look at their own behaviour.
I simply believe in a "live and let live" approach to life, but it works both ways. They're free to do whatever I want, and equally I'm free to hold and express whatever opinion of them that I want.
If they claim that my opinion causes them psychological harm, I can just as easily claim that their behaviour causes me psychological harm. Anyone can claim they are psychologically harmed by anything.
Most people manage to take insults without any severe impact upon their mental health, and so if someone is genuinely unable to do this, they are the one with the problem and they are the one who needs to seek psychiatric help.
Original post by JPO92
They can, but it's up to everyone to use good judgement on whether someone is fudging the system or telling the truth.
I don't think it necessarily matters whether they're telling the truth or not. Even if they are psychologically harmed by my expression of my opinion, it's their problem and they need to seek psychiatric help for it, rather than attempting to censor me.
Just as, if I claimed that I was psychologically harmed by knowing that someone else is engaging in promiscuous behaviour, I doubt they would stop just for me. They'd say "it's your problem, not mine" and not let it affect them.
Slut shaming is never justified. Only a prude has any issue with how much sex someone else has. You do you, let them do them. Sex is great and there is no reason you shouldn't have as much as you want.
Cheating is a bad thing, making a fool of yourself is a bad thing. But these are entirely separate things.
Cheating is a bad thing, making a fool of yourself is a bad thing. But these are entirely separate things.
Time spent on affairs/seedy matters is time diverted away from helping the poor, educating oneself and generally practising good dawah. I would also be extremely wary of professionals like GPs, solicitors and bank clerks engaging in immorality because if they cannot maintain integrity in their personal life it also likely that they will be corruptible in their professional one also. Plus its an ugly way of life unbefitting of respectable professionals of that ilk; if they were in marketing or something then engaging in filth perhaps wouldn't be that surprising.
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